REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

How to Invite People to be a Guest on your Podcast

On this episode, I’ll teach you tips and tricks for how to successfully invite guests on your podcast.

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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:00.622)
I want to share with you how to invite people to be a guest on your podcast. It’s actually a pretty straightforward and pretty simple process, but I’ll be sharing with you an example of what it looks like. But initially I just wanted to give you just as some guidelines on what it looks like in another video. If you’re watching this on YouTube, another podcast, if you’re listening to this, I go over how to find guests for your podcast. So now once you have found those guests, this is the next step.

is inviting those people to be a guest on your podcast. So here is the first thing to do is you want to have an overview of your podcast within the pitch. And it’s just very simple. Who’s your target audience? As an example from my podcast, REI Marketing Secrets, we talked to real estate investors about how they market and grow their real estate business. Pretty simple, pretty straightforward. And from there, you want to include the metrics.

of your show, this could be your listeners, this could be your email subscribers, this could be the past guests that you’ve had on your show. So I find if your show has been around a long time, you want to put your listeners and subscribers numbers and subscriber numbers, I mean more for your email list if it’s a good quality number. If you are newer and you don’t have a ton of listeners and you don’t have a big email list, you could put past quality guests. And the reasoning for that is the podcast host could be like,

X, Y, and Z has been on the podcast or the podcast guests, I should say. These individuals have been on the podcast. Maybe I should be a guest on the podcast as well. So I recommend something simple like that. And now you might be thinking, OK, well, I haven’t recorded any episodes yet. I don’t have any listeners. I have a very, very small email list. How do I find guests or how do I invite people to be a guest on my show? And that’s the predicament I found myself in where.

When I was launching the podcast, I didn’t have a lot of listeners, not a huge email list, not, you know, obviously no past guests. So what did I do is I just basically then I include that information in there and reach out to folks that I had a good connection with people that I knew. And the reason for this is that I knew if I was going to reach out to a very good, high quality podcast guest that I’ve never come into contact with, I have no relationship built out with them.

Trevor Oldham (02:27.054)
it’s going to be very difficult to get them on the podcast. Or conversely, if I know how to get them, if I can reach out to folks I already have a connection with, maybe I reach out to folks that are successful, but they don’t have a massive brand where they’re going to be very, they’re going to vet each podcast that they go on very deeply. I should say if that’s the word I’m looking for, but again, just finding someone, whether you have a connection with them, whether you don’t.

and then over time, then you can reach out to those very high quality guests. And what I mean by high quality guests, I think I’m looking to say more successful guests. These are your folks, maybe they’ve been in the industry 10, 15, 20 years. These are your influence that you can think of. I can be a high quality podcast guest, you can be a high quality podcast guest. Just having a good quality microphone, a good backdrop, having good choices to share, sharing your podcast interview after it goes live, that’s a high quality podcast guest. What I’m talking about here is having a successful,

very successful podcast guests on your show. And then the last little bit is just having a link to book the interview, just something very simple. So that way the podcast host, the podcast guest, I should say, they don’t have to reach out and be like, hey, how do I book this interview? I want to be a guest. And then it’s like that one extra step where now they have to email you, you have to email them. Who knows what could happen? Something gets lost in translation. The interview never happened. So.

To share with you an example and for those listening to the podcast, you can check out our YouTube channel, Podcasting You. And for those watching on YouTube, here’s basically what it would look like. Dismissed that. So subject line, podcast interview, invitation for guest name. Then you’re going to put hi, you know, their name. We are thrilled to extend an exclusive invitation to you, inviting you guys to guest to our show. Then you’re going to put your podcast name.

Then you’re going to put an overview of your podcast audience. Like I mentioned for mine, REI Marketing Seekers are, we talk to folks in the real estate investment space on how they grow their business or audience is going to be real estate investors, new, young, old, medium, large, small, however you want to be. You know, our audience is successful investors, very successful investors that want to get into marketing edge to those that are just starting out and want to learn the basics of marketing one -on -one and anywhere in between. That’s who our audience is.

Trevor Oldham (04:52.11)
So I give a brief overview of that. I say the podcast receives X listeners per episode and will be sent out to a list of X email subscribers. So obviously you wouldn’t say X, you would put in the actual numbers there. And then I put to secure a guest spot on the podcast, simply follow this link to book your interview. I include the link. I highly recommend that you have it. I just use Calendly. It’s a great tool to use. And then I say thank you for your time and we eagerly look forward to hosting you on.

Podcast name so you just put your podcast name and then best regards best. Thank you Looking forward to talking soon. Just whatever you want to put for your email signature. I’m not gonna harp on it Yeah, it’s pretty simple. There’s not a ton of work that needs to be done that goes into it Again, over you the podcast audience listener metrics Then we want to have those listener metrics in there. So the person can be like, okay Yeah, I want to go on the show. But again, it doesn’t need to be that way. I started my show I didn’t have any listeners so

As you grow over time, it gets a lot easier because then you can start to add in those metrics. But for the time being until you don’t, I would remove that information and then just include, you know, over you or the podcast audience. Here’s why you should invite you as a guest on the show. Then how to secure a guest spot on the show. But yeah, that’s really it. It’s pretty simple. You can customize it to your own show. I know we customize it to my show to our clients showed, but hopefully this is a great overview.

for you on how to invite people to be a guest on your podcast.






REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

How To Build A Profitable Land Flipping Business with Mike Deaton

On this episode, Mike Deaton shares his experience in land flipping and multifamily investing. He explains how he got started in land flipping and the process of finding and marketing parcels of land. He emphasizes the importance of finding a coach or mentor to accelerate your journey and limit mistakes. Mike also discusses the different strategies and value-add opportunities in the land business. In the multifamily space, he talks about the benefits of passive investing and the active role of being a general partner. He shares his plans for the future, including exploring other asset classes like self-storage and business acquisitions.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 


What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Finding a coach or mentor can accelerate your journey and limit mistakes in real estate investing.
    • Land flipping offers the opportunity for high returns and cash flow, especially when properties are bought at a discount.
    • Marketing land can be done through various channels, including Zillow, Facebook, Craigslist, and specialized land marketing websites.
    • In multifamily investing, passive investing allows for cash flow and wealth building, while being a general partner involves more active involvement and responsibilities.
    • Exploring other asset classes like self-storage and business acquisitions can provide additional investment opportunities.

Connect with Mike:

LinkedIn:   / michaelbdeaton  

YouTube: @mike_and_ligia

FB:   / mikeandligia  


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Learn how to master podcasts for business growth 👇 

Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:02.798)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the REIMarketingSecrets podcast. Today on the show we have Mike Deaton. And Mike for our audience out there who is just learning about yourself for the very first time. Do you mind just going into a little bit about your background and what you do?

Mike Deaton (00:17.752)
Yeah, you bet. So I spent decades in corporate America working in tech and supply chain. 2016 pivoted, got out of the corporate life and went more in an entrepreneurial direction. That direction in 2017 was land and land investing, or as I call it, land flipping. And really, I had heard a few people on podcasts just like this talking about different investment types and

What intrigued me was they were making triple digit returns on their investments. And, you know, the first podcast I heard, I was like, okay, this is an outlier. Somebody’s kind of done something different. But then I heard another guest very soon after that podcast talk about the same thing. And so I got intrigued. I started exploring, ultimately took the plunge, my wife and I both. And so we started running it as a full time business in 2017.

We built it up into a really tremendous cash flowing business. And in 2020, I guess, we found ourselves paying what we thought was too much in taxes. And so we got into commercial real estate. And for us, that’s multifamily investing, larger syndication styles, 100 plus units, pooling together investments as a team. And so.

That’s a way to diversify our income, get into some other asset classes, but most importantly to enjoy the depreciation that comes along with it. We’re both real estate professionals, so we take near unlimited paper losses or depreciation. Now we pay virtually no taxes. As I mentioned, we’re looking at a few different asset classes, but for now,

I mean, it’s bread and butter. We earn just outrageous returns in cash flow and land, and we offset it with multifamily losses, as well as wealth building, just through the multifamily assets. And so that’s kind of where we find ourselves now. Last year, we started a coaching program where we teach others how to do the land investing, and it’s been super successful. It’s been really rewarding just giving back. I mean, it transformed our lives, and so we’re having a good time giving back and watching it transform other people’s.

Mike Deaton (02:35.416)
It’s just, it’s kind of a fun thing, but nutshell, that’s where I am.

Trevor Oldham (02:39.502)
Yeah, I like those two classes between the land and the multifamily. And we were talking off air a little bit, getting those depreciation, getting that off. It’s nice getting those K1s a couple months back and seeing like, I don’t have to pay anything. Maybe you have to have the depreciation recapture, but at least in this time being, it is nice not having to pay any taxes on that. But curious, when you started to build your land business, your land flipping business, how did you go about finding the different…

land, the different parcels, was it just, you know, was it a course? Did you work with another coach or was it just, you know, listening to these podcasts, self -educating yourself? How did you go about it? Because I mean, in my town, I live in the countryside and pretty much you drive down the street, you’re going to see a piece of land for sale. You know, there’s always acreage and, you know, it usually sits there for quite a while. I mean, I know there’s a neighborhood, my wife and I walk in and I think it’s been on, the piece of land has been for sale like five years now.

And it’s in a really nice development, but no one’s no one’s bought it. So I guess how do you go out and find the parcels of land? Like in my area, I probably wouldn’t want to buy just because we’re from what I see. There’s just it sits for quite a while. But how did you go about like starting the business and really building it?

Mike Deaton (03:53.24)
Yeah, it’s a great question. And so just to touch on something you mentioned, when we decided we were going to go all in in entrepreneurship, and then we settled on this as our business model, we took the approach that we wanted to find a coach and a mentor to accelerate our journey, to limit any mistakes that we might make, and to get us going faster than we would if we were to DIY it. It’s certainly possible to do.

But we’ve coached a few people who have been doing that and they’re struggling. And so when you have somebody that can guide you along the way, it definitely accelerates your journey. We did the same thing when we got in multifamily. We found a group and we found partnerships and things like that. And so I encourage listeners any time, especially if it’s something that has the potential to earn money. I mean, lost opportunity is a real thing, right? I mean, if you’re

doing a DIY approach and you’re not yielding the results that you would with a coach, it’s so worth the investment to find a good coach and mentor that’s going to accelerate your journey. So upfront, we went into it with this mindset of, you know, we really want to play this game for real. And so we found a coach and we got into it. The way we do the land investing and the way a lot of people do it is there’s a formula.

and a process to go out and find land. We only buy land if we can get it for, let’s say, half of retail value or less. And so we go, the great thing about land is there’s millions of parcels all over the nation. As you mentioned, everybody drives by vacant lot. You go out into the country, there’s even more. You see billboards and signs, land for sale. And so there’s all this land available. You can do this business.

We live in Colorado. We do a lot of our business in Colorado just because we love trees and mountains and these types of things. But we have bought and sold land all across the Southwest primarily from Texas to Southern California and up. And so you can do this pretty much anywhere. But the way we go about finding it is we usually go through a process to pick a market.

Mike Deaton (06:13.848)
And there are ways to go about doing that. And there’s a variety of ways in which you can do it. So but anyway, we pick a market, which is usually a county, if not a sub region of a county. And so for instance, in Dallas, Dallas is probably a bad example, but maybe Tarrant County next to it, you’re going to have a combination of urban land as well as rural land. Well, a lot of counties are very similar. You have pockets of really remote.

land, you have agriculture, you have maybe some subdivisions where you have small parcels of land for homes. And so it’s really up to you and what you want to go after. We do a lot of rural land. We do five to 10 acres. Now that we’ve been in a few years, we go up to a hundred acres or more. I mean, we play a little bigger, but the way we go about doing it is we’ll get a list of property owners and realtors do this. Home flippers do this. It’s no different in the land business.

And there are several ways to go about it. You can go to the county directly. A lot of times they’ll have a database and they are the ultimate record keepers, right? Because they’re sending out tax bills every year to the property owners. And so they have the list of the most current record of who owns the properties. But there’s a lot of service providers around it that will gather that data and you can purchase ready -made lists that are already formatted or you can filter them.

by people that owe taxes or people that live out of state or other means, right? And so essentially you go about getting a list of those property owners and you do a direct marketing campaign. There’s various ways to do it. You can mail out letters, you can mail out postcards, you can make a direct offer, you can not make an offer. There’s people that do text messaging and phoning directly. I mean, it’s not dissimilar to other real estate.

ventures, it’s just essentially getting the contact information and then doing an outreach. And then, like I said, we only buy properties when we can get them at pennies on the dollar. And then we know right away we can essentially flip it and make a profit. We don’t have to wait on the market to appreciate or worry about it depreciating. All of those factors that kind of complicate some of the other asset classes. This is really purely buying low, selling high.

Mike Deaton (08:39.448)
And then when we sell properties, we do it one of two ways generally. We sell it for cash if people want to buy up front. Or we do probably 90 % of our business we own or finance ourselves. And so if you buy a $20 ,000 piece of land from us, we’ll give you a $500 monthly payment for the next however long that needs to be. We don’t typically charge interest directly. Like we don’t put a

7 % interest rate on top of it. We’ll usually just mark the land up or down and we’ll come at it like if you want to pay me cash for the land, I’ll give you a big discount today because I’m getting your money upfront in that way. But you know, this is really what we have built up today is just a passive income monthly book of what we call notes. They’re promissory notes that people pay us. And so we have an income stream for years to come that we know pretty much is guaranteed. There’s

some amount of maybe defaults. Some people pay off early, which is great. But yeah, in a nutshell, that’s kind of the business model and more directly how we go about finding our land deals.

Trevor Oldham (09:48.942)
And when it comes to you going out there and buying the land itself, let’s just say hypothetically, found an acre 10 ,000 bucks. When it comes to you buying it, are you just buying it with cash and then you’re going out there and then find the next buyer and doing that sort of seller financing? Or are you going through like a private lender? What does that sort of look like when it comes to like you financing and then before you’re, you know, sort of turning it over to the buyer.

Mike Deaton (10:08.92)
Yeah, we personally outright buy our properties with our own money. But it is a great business model to use leverage. If you can get it, like if you can find a partner, banks are sometimes tricky with land. When we first started our business, we had a brand new business. And so we really didn’t qualify for business lines of credit or things like that. Now we could get it if we wanted it. Because the margins are so ridiculous, like, I mean, it literally

we average 125 % annualized ROI on our investments. We get our money back on our investment in about 10 months, typically, and then we’re making profit after it. And so you can afford to pay 10%, even 20 % interest rate if you wanted to, and still be making a really hefty profit. So leverage is a great way to do it. We just keep things clean. I don’t typically like a lot of debt or any debt.

other than on bigger assets. Now, we’ve done some six figure plus deals and it makes sense. I don’t want to tie up my capital in that way, similar to a multifamily or whatever. It’s a large investment. It really pays to use the leverage. There’s different strategies, but we, for the most part, use our own capital these days.

Trevor Oldham (11:27.694)
Yeah, I’d like to hear that. I’m curious when it comes to the parcel within itself, when you’re out there and finding it and you’re going through the list, how do you know? I mean, I know you much like you might be able to get the parcel, say 40, 60 cents on the dollar, maybe sometimes even cheaper than that. But is there a way you go about finding even besides that, like, hey, like, this is a good parcel to, you know, to bring out and to sell and maybe do that seller financing to someone like, let’s say you get something and you just can’t build on it, you know, and that’s why it’s been for sale or.

You know, there’s a lot of headaches. Like if someone wants to build on it, they have to go through this whole process to get permits within the county. Like how do you go about finding these parcels where you know, like, yeah, even though I’m getting a great deal on it, I’m going to make money on it. I’m not just buying say this parcel. I think I’m going to get a deal because I’m buying it 20 cents on the dollar, but actually I just, we’re going to become a nightmare because I can’t do anything with it. So this piece of land in a county or a state where I’m not going to go and it’s just going to be sitting there.

Mike Deaton (12:24.024)
Yeah. So when we started out, we had very much these concerns and we were very picky about, this has a little bit of a slope or, too many trees, not enough trees. all these different things came into play. You know, since we’ve done this for, for seven plus years, we have never been stuck with a property. and we’ve, we’ve bought some properties that, that we personally thought were just dogs and nobody was going to buy. There’s a saying, that,

that we hear in the land business, there’s a pig for every barn. And so if you find it, there’s a buyer for it. You can buy Swampland and there’s somebody that has a vision and an idea and just wants Swampland. They have a dirt bike and they wanna ride their ATVs or whatever. And so it really comes down to marketing and getting in front of enough people to be able to sell something even.

We live here in the mountains of Colorado. Well, our property, it slopes. Well, we love it because it slopes, because we have beautiful views out the back. And so, you know, there’s really just a way to go about marketing it. And so we do still do due diligence upfront. I mean, there are red flags, right? You can have liens on a property. And so you want to make sure that you’re avoiding things like that. But they really come down to the title and how clean the chain of title is.

There are systems that you can, I mean, title companies, they use systems to go about finding that stuff out. Well, you can do the same thing. You can also use title companies, and we have done that on occasion to do that. And some buyers want property title insurance and things like that. So there’s ways to go about it. But as far as the property themselves, as long as you get a property and you’re aware of those things, like let’s say you buy a property and the county says, hey, property is less than a quarter acre. We don’t let you build on.

And as long as you know that, you can market it. And if you’re upfront with your, I mean, we don’t want to be tricky or misleading with anybody. We, as much as we can, we’re upfront. We also used to do a lot of homework on the front end. We used to try to find out everything that you could do. What are all the restrictions and regulations? Now we put a lot of that back on the potential buyer because they know what they want to do. And so we’ll just direct them to the county and say, Hey, our understanding is…

Mike Deaton (14:45.304)
that you may or may not be able to build on this, but just go check with planning and zoning before you commit to a purchase. Or a lot of people want to camp on their properties. Well, typically counties will let you do it, but not forever. They’ll say, you know, hey, you can do it for three months and then you need to be away for a little bit of time and then you can come back. Cause I just don’t want people, you know, living in a tent or an RV and not having a septic system or whatever. And so I have yet to really hear about,

a property that can’t be sold. The one caveat I will ask on that, or I will say on that is we do encounter landlocked properties now and again where there is no right of way legally to get on something and we will stay away from things like that because it does become tricky. Even if there’s an easement through someone else’s property, I just really don’t want to deal with it and market it and all that. So that’s really the one thing that we’ll stay away from. But anything else, I mean, like I said, there’s a buyer.

out there who wants that property. And obviously we’ll scale our offer a little bit. Like, you know, if it’s a primo piece of property, okay, well, we might, you know, hold firm on our offer or even increase it a bit. But if it’s next to a dump or something, then, you know, we’ll tell somebody, hey, we’d still be open to buy your property, but we’re gonna scale our offer down to something else.

Trevor Oldham (16:00.462)

Trevor Oldham (16:09.262)
Yeah, I think that’s super helpful for our audience to know just taking a look at the different parcels and the properties and just making sure you’re doing that extra little step of due diligence. But what I’m curious when it comes to marketing the parcels. So like, let’s say you’ve gone, you got under contract, you bought the parcel, you bought the piece of land. How do you go about finding the buyer at that point? Is it similar to like if I want to sell my house where you contact a broker or agent, is there like an MLS for land? What does that sort of look like for you to find, go out there and find buyers or?

Mike Deaton (16:18.58)
Mm -hmm.

Trevor Oldham (16:38.574)
you know, for the piece of the land that you have.

Mike Deaton (16:40.76)
Yeah, no, it’s great. So everything that works for other properties works for land and more. And so we like the free channels. Zillow is great. You can market raw land on Zillow, Facebook, Craigslist. They all have forums and groups that you can plug into and offer things for sale. We do most of our selling off of social media.

Now that we’ve been in business for a while, we have a really large email list of people that have been interested in properties. And so we will also use that as a, a lot of times we’ll give preferred notice to people on our email list, just first dibs on something. But beyond that, we don’t do it too often, but in some cases we’ll partner with realtors. They’ll do a lot of the legwork. They’ll put it on the MLS, they’ll take photos, they’ll…

put a sign in the dirt, especially if it’s in a certain area like a gated community or maybe it’s in an area where you can’t really clearly differentiate where the property is. It’s helpful to have somebody that will go out with potential clients and buyers and show them the actual property such that you don’t have to do it. But it’s pretty rare that we do that. It’s…

You know, it’s a matter of preference. We use online and digital channels and we have really good success. There’s also paid sites. There’s like lands .com, landandfarm .com. They’re purely marketing sites where people go to look for land and they will allow you to advertise your land there for a cost. And then they’ll have typically tiered packages. Like they have an entry level where you can post one or two ads per month.

If you buy their platinum package, they’ll bump your ad to the top of the list and give you preferred visuals, or not visuals, but give you preferred putting you in front of people’s eyes, just like they do on Google or Facebook or whatever. You can pay for clicks. We don’t use too much of those because we have so much luck on other platforms. But every now and again, we’ll sign up and market our properties on the paid sites. And they’re pretty good for what they are.

Trevor Oldham (19:05.87)
Yeah, that’s that’s definitely good to hear because I was always my my thought process was like, okay, now I got the land. I got a good deal. How do I go and find find the buyer? But no, it sounds like there’s a couple of different sources that you can use. I’m curious. I know some people have used this strategy in the past. And I know we’re talking, let’s just say you have 100 acres per se and you go out and you buy the 100 acres. Let’s just say 100 ,000 bucks. Just keep it simple. Then you go out and you subdivide the 100 acres into

say 10 different parcels, so 10 acres each, and then you sell those for 20 ,000 a piece. So then your profit would be 100 ,000, you bought it for 100 ,000, you sell all the land for 200 ,000. Is there ever a strategy like that where you go out and you subdivide the land, or is it more you’ll go out and buy five acres, 100 acres, and then sell it all as one sort of package, or is it sometimes subdividing, maybe there’s a developer or someone in the area that just wants access to the land, what does that sort of look like?

Mike Deaton (20:04.344)
Yeah, it’s a great strategy. And so with land, this is one of the great things. So our business model, 98 % of the time, is just flipping. So we buy it inexpensively. We don’t want to do any value add. We just want to turn it around and sell it and get some speed and momentum with it. We typically double our money or more, depending on how we’re selling it in the market. And so we make enough not to mess with other value add things. But just exactly to your point.

With land, there are a lot of vertical layers that you can then add value. So you can rezone it and move it from one category to another. That’s a little more advantageous. Like you mentioned, a developer may want to get it. You can do some infrastructure work. You can subdivide it. You can rough in concrete or plumbing. You can build on it.

And so, you can really stack it up and there are people that do that purely as a business model. We keep it a little cleaner. We are looking at things like that, however, just as we get a little more systemized in our business, we have time to look at other aspects and go bigger in terms of our investment and our net dollar returns. But those are great value -add strategies. There’s other things. I mean, you can…

just rough a driveway in or put a fence around something or a lot of preppers love land. So there’s a lot of things that you can do in that regard with underground bunkers or different things. But yeah, there’s so much flexibility in the land space.

Trevor Oldham (21:48.174)
Yeah, definitely seems like there’s a lot of possibilities. I’ve just driven by parcels where, you know, they put in the driveway or they have the septic in it. Just simple things like that. Maybe just boost up the value. And then you have like the ones where, you know, they haven’t done anything to it. Or you have the ones where like the one I’m thinking of the neighborhood, they haven’t done anything to you. You have all the trees there and then you drive past somewhere, they knocked down all the trees and they just make it nice and flat where it’s, you know, it’s readily available to build. So I think there’s so many different layers when it comes to land, which is pretty, pretty interesting, but.

Mike Deaton (21:53.368)

Trevor Oldham (22:17.486)
I already talked about the acreage, say a deal from four to five acres up to a hundred acres. Is there like a price points that you stick with then? Or is it, you know, you say 20 ,000, a hundred thousand anywhere in between. If the deal makes sense, is there, I guess I’m going for, is there ever like a deal that’s like, Hey, this parcel is only a thousand bucks. Yeah, I can get it for, you know, 300 bucks. I might make a little bit of money or is it more, Hey, I want to, my minimum parcel, I want to buy at least.

to be 20 ,000 so I know it’s gonna be worth my while to go through the whole process just to make a decent return. What does that sort of look like when it comes to your strategy?

Mike Deaton (22:54.104)
So we do have a strategy and it’s evolved over time. When we started, we were a little on the lower side of things. And then we quickly figured out that it takes the same amount of work to find, buy, market, and sell a property, whether you bought it for $100 or 10 ,000 or 20 ,000. And so we typically try to stay in…

I mentioned get our money back in less than 12 months. And so what we like to do is, for instance, the majority of people, if you think about it, we kind of keep our land payments around a car payment. And we’re actually a little lower. I mean, car payments today are a bit crazy. We’re pushing four figures. But we like to keep our land between, let’s say, $350 and $750. And so Simple Math says, we try not to pay more than $10 ,000 for the bulk of our properties.

so that we can then turn around, offer a monthly payment that’s affordable, that reaches a lot of people, and then we can really get great margins on that. But we coach a lot of students that come with different resources. And one of the biggest resources that we focus on is their budget. And so some people just can’t really afford that right now. They only have a little bit of money. And so they’ll traffic. It’s easy to double and triple your money really quickly in the space. And so.

You know, if you’re buying properties for three, four, $500, then after six months or so, if you’re reinvesting that money into your business, then you can step up and go more into a sweet spot zone. I think I mentioned earlier that, you know, we personally are stepping up into larger deals just because, you know, if you double your money on a $10 ,000 property, okay, you’re going to net $10 ,000. We’d kind of rather go the approach of buying a 50 ,000 or a hundred thousand dollar property.

Maybe you don’t make 100 % margin on it, but your net profit in terms of dollar amount is a lot larger for that one deal. They can just be a little slower to work because you’re buying pools a bit smaller and you have to do a little bit more work. Those are deals where we partner a bit more. We’ll have a title company on both the buy and the sell. We’ll use a realtor so they can use their network and they can get out there and work their systems. And there’s…

Mike Deaton (25:17.656)
But there’s more opportunity for it because the margins are heftier and you can afford to pay out versus if you’re buying a thousand dollar property and you’re going to make two or three or four thousand dollars, it really starts to eat into the margin if you’re paying a title company and you’re paying a commission to a realtor and you’re doing things like that. But yeah, I mean, there really is kind of a sweet spot, but it’s open to your budget and your resources.

Trevor Oldham (25:41.614)
That’s perfect to hear and I think that’s great where you start off smaller, just got the couple of deals under your belt and then as you over time over the last six, seven years, you sort of have grown it from there. And what I really like about the land opportunity more so than some of these other investments out there, just getting that return of principal back, like you mentioned, getting that return of capital back within 10 months. I mean, I’m in a self -storage deal right now and I think getting my, I’m sure get my return of capital back some point next year.

and it’ll be about three years of my capital locked up. And for me, I’m like, I’m excited about that. So I’ve been trying to find deals where I could get my return of capital back within a year, 18 months. And it’s definitely been harder when it comes to your more standard investments where it sounds like land. You can, like you mentioned, average, get it back in 10 months. I mean, that’s, that’s nice because then you can take that money to fund your next deal. We’re also earning that cashflow coming in from that one deal. And it’s almost like that velocity of money where, yeah, it might not be a lot in the first year, but then.

You go four or five years out and all of a sudden you have all these seller finance deals, you have all your capital back. It’s almost like a snowball effect.

Mike Deaton (26:45.752)
It’s a great point and well said. I mean, it’s exactly that. In the early months, you can be tying up some capital. You can leverage things, and you can get things going in that way. But…

Yeah, once you’ve built it up and the momentum grows, then it really grows quickly. And as I mentioned, that’s kind of where we found ourselves a couple of years into our business. We were earning great money. We replaced our W -2 salaries and had some good money coming in, but a big tax bill came with that. So we looked for ways to offset that pretty quickly. And that’s where the commercial side of things came in. But our experience in the commercial business was, you know, in early 2020, we got into some home run deals.

that cashed out in 12 or 18 months and we got big returns. But as we got deeper into COVID and then interest rates started going up, it’s quite the opposite, right? We have money that deals that just aren’t paying out any of the cashflow in principle and just kind of holding on to hope that cap rates change and the interest rates change. And so, yeah, our capital’s tied up and a lot of what we’ve done in our…

commercial real estate journey is really fund things through an SDIRA. And so it’s okay. We’re not depending on that cashflow to come in. Thankfully we have land pays all our bills and we have things coming in. So it’s a great combo for us. I mean, it really is. We see multifamily in the commercial side as a way to build longer term wealth. And then the land is cashflow today, but also is building let’s call it a midterm, medium term stream.

Trevor Oldham (28:24.526)
Yeah, like those two different avenues and I like they mentioned the self -directed IRA. I’m reading the self -directed IRA handbook right now just to learn more about it. It’s a good book. It’s a little dry at times, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, I want to just learn as much as I can about it because I’ve always, because I’ve been thinking about converting my Roth over to the self -directed IRA. So I wanted to learn more about the fee structure. What exactly can I invest in? What can I not invest in?

I wish I could set up so I could have put my business in there, but I know they’ve gone over many times in the book that that’s prohibited and I cannot put my business being the key principle in it. But it’s a nice avenue where you can put and you can create and build your wealth around it. But when it comes to the multifamily space and going a little bit away from land, have you been more on the GP side as a co -GP? Have you been investing as an LP? What does that look like?

from your standpoint when it comes into more of the commercial and the multifamily side of the business.

Mike Deaton (29:23.992)
Yeah, we’ve worked our way across the spectrum really. So when we got involved first, we had some capital to deploy. And so we entered into deals as LPs. And it got us a taste and to learn the language. And we got a peek behind some of the deals. And then we worked our way through different roles within the general partnership. We have raised capital. We’ve done investor communications.

We’ve co -GP’d on some deals and been lead sponsors on a couple of deals. So we’ve kind of run the spectrum and it’s a great way to get involved in deals using Swat Equity and getting in and helping as a GP. It is, I would say looking back, it’s a huge time investment. Like it really takes…

especially if you’re a lead sponsor or you’re really active in the deal, there’s just almost a never -ending amount of attention and work. People talk about even you have a property manager. Well, property managers need to be checked and looked into and you meet with them and maybe there’s issues happening, so you have to help problem solve and do things like that. It’s been a very active pursuit and I’m glad we have the opportunity to do it and learn it.

I would say if you can do it, passive investing is probably the way to go in terms of doing that and getting the benefits and things like that. But if you don’t necessarily have the funds to invest, sweat equity is a great way to get involved, both in land and in the commercial side to help do things like that.

Trevor Oldham (31:05.998)
Yeah, and I can’t agree more with that. I know I got into a couple of deals myself right now as an LP and I thought about how to go about being a GP, but I don’t want to, well, I know I can’t go out. I don’t want to like find the property and do all that. So I was like, what, what could I do? So I partnered with a real estate investor where I help, I book them on podcasts and normally charge as a fee. So I don’t charge them anything. And then I also run Google ads for them to bring investors to them. And then I get a percentage of the investors that invest their money with them. So I’m sort of thinking potentially changing.

I don’t know if I would do it all the time because I like getting the cash flow from my current client. So I don’t know if I would change our whole business model, but it’s that sweat equity where the client doesn’t pay anything. I just go, I’m the only thing I’m paying is my time, but testing that model out where I could become, I could be on that GP team. Cause my goal right now is I don’t have that tax professionals or the real estate professional status, which is where I eventually want to be. Because as sure as you know, once you get that, then you can really start to offset your income. Where right now I can only drop it down to.

you know, even though I see like a $20 ,000 loss, I can only, I can only zero it out. I can’t, I can’t claim that $20 ,000 loss without having that tax status. So for me, it’s like getting on more of those GP deals where like you mentioned, maybe not the one going out and finding the property. Maybe you’re helping them raise the capital. Maybe you’re doing those investor communications, just being that asset. And I think it just comes with networking with the different sponsors and GPs that are out there figuring out what they want. I mean,

I love the real estate community. I find people are very friendly. They’re very open to just networking and communicating. So there’s no shortage of, I mean, there’s definitely no shortage of real estate companies that could use help, you know, if you go out and any position it in the right way. So I definitely, I definitely like that. And in the future, do you have any deals coming up or you just sort of just sitting on the sideline, just waiting to see how it plays out? I know the multifamily space, I mean, no one could have expected the interest rates to rise as quickly as they did. I know I’m in one multifamily deal, luckily.

I’m still getting cash flow distributions. It’s like 5%. It’s not, it’s fine. It’s, you know, I’m not going to kill it on a 5 % distribution right now, but it’s better than nothing. It’s better than pause distributions, but curious what it looks like for the future for you when it comes to the commercial space.

Mike Deaton (33:14.84)
Yeah, so similar to a lot of people, we kind of stepped back late 22, early 23 and took a wait and see approach just to wait for things to calm down. It seems like they have at least flattened. It’s still hard to really make a deal work these days. We try to stay away from any deal that is underwritten, that’s not cash flowing today.

that is banking on some kind of value add or something in the future just because it is so uncertain. And so we are right now still on the sidelines. I’m not even underwriting or working actively with any partners. But I would say in the second half of this year, I still love multifamily. I am interested to maybe step down in size a little bit and hit this 50 to 100 unit, maybe even a little smaller.

The syndication model is a lot like flipping, right? I mean, there’s a finite amount of time and you have to keep chasing and re -upping your investment or essentially you’re flipping. And our vision is longer term cash flowing assets. And so we’d like to either outright own something ourselves or maybe have a small JV where we’ve partnered with a few people and we’ve purchased something and then we just keep it for 2030 or.

however long we want to keep it. We’re looking at a few other ideas. I really like storage as an asset class. Buying a business is also kind of hitting the mainstream these days. I think statistics are such that there’s a lot of retiring people or a lot of people that need to cash out of their business for retirement. And so there’s some opportunities there, but that also can be really, really active. And you can be stepping into something that you have no.

know you’re not familiar with or things like that. So it comes with its own set of problems. But we love the housing space. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon. There’s just a shortage. And for the next five to 10 years, it feels like there’s really no out to that shortage. And so I think that’s dollar for dollar. One of the best places is to put yourself into real estate.

Mike Deaton (35:41.176)
But there are a few asset classes out there. So we’ll see in the second half. We’re talking to other, as you mentioned, real estate’s a great area to network. There’s no shortage of events and people, and everybody’s super friendly. And it’s easy to find complementary partners that help your skill set and can balance out. And so that’s what I really love about.

real estate and syndications in general and partnerships. So yeah, we’ll see what second half of this year in 25 holds, but that’s the initial direction.

Trevor Oldham (36:19.854)
and looking at the other asset class out there, I know at least the self storage deal that I’m in. It seems like there’s a lot of mom and pop owners out there. At least the deal I’m in. It’s a fun model, so there’s three different facilities. They were like 250 % below market rent of what they should be for the… It seems to almost be a common theme within the self storage race. You have the people that go out and they’ll take maybe an old Kmart or store and they’ll build in the storage units. That’s an option. But…

Mike Deaton (36:37.928)

Trevor Oldham (36:49.71)
I find that there’s a lot of just mom and pops where they have the self storage facility, but they don’t even have like a website. They don’t have technology, just things like that. And there’s a lot of opportunities within the self store, self storage space. I know again, I’m just an LP and if in the company I invested with, they seem to be doing good, but it seems to be a common theme in the self storage space. And just looking at other sponsors where I just mom and pop owners that just haven’t updated the pricing, haven’t added in any technology ever. So.

If you’re looking at that asset class, it seems like there’s a lot of opportunity there where I mean, I know going into this deal, like, yeah, I’m not going to get my money back for three years. It’s a development deal because they’re adding more units onto the facility. So don’t get distributions two years in, but the rents were 250 % below market value. So I can go through and I can already see they, they raised rents to what they should be. And it’s already cash flowing. I just haven’t received distributions because it is a development deal, but I know going in like,

even if we didn’t even rent out the new units, it’s probably going to break even just based on how below market the rents were already on the property. So I definitely like that asset class. And I think it’s a good one. If you’re, if you’re looking into it, there’s a lot of opportunity within it. But like I wanted to say, I really enjoyed this interview today and if our audience is listening, where can they go to learn more about you and find out more about, you know, investing in your company or investing, you know, through us coaching.

Mike Deaton (38:14.936)
Yeah, likewise enjoyed. I always enjoy talking real estate and getting different deals and looks and understanding the market a bit better. So appreciate you for having me on. For anybody that wants to get in touch with me, the probably the best way is to go to flipping dirt dot US and we have a landing page there flipping dirt dot US slash freedom. And I’ve tried to make that really a one stop shop. So we have a couple of little ebooks that’ll

You can download and it’ll teach you about the ins and outs of land. My contact information is there. There’s a Calendly link. You can make an appointment if you want to chat more, love to talk to anybody about land or multifamily or any real estate asset classes. But that’s probably the best thing. I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. You can drop that in the show notes, but I think it’s Michael B. Deaton. So it’s a bit of a mouthful. But yeah, you can find me there. And those are probably the two best platforms.

Trevor Oldham (39:11.31)
Awesome. I’ll make sure to include that in the show notes of today’s episode. And again, thanks so much for coming on to the show today.

Mike Deaton (39:16.696)
Thank you, Trevor.








REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

How To Be a Great Podcast Guest

In this episode, I’ll share valuable insights on how to be a great podcast guest. We’ll discuss the importance of punctuality, microphone quality, background setup, storytelling, and providing helpful content without explicitly selling.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 



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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:01.07)
I want to talk about how to be a great podcast guest. It’s actually fairly simple. There is not a lot to it, but I find so many people mess this up. So without further ado, the first thing is just showing up on time. Just be respectful of you and your host time. The last thing you want to do is show up to an interview five minutes late. If you know you’re going to be running late, if you know you have a client meeting that typically goes a little bit longer than

the half hour or the hour that you set aside. Just let the host know, Hey, I’m going to be five minutes late. I just need a five minute buffer before we start. Just let the podcast host know I’ve had guests as a podcast host myself show up five minutes late show up 10 minutes late. And I’m very busy throughout the course of the day. So it just makes it a little bit tougher on me to make sure I get a good quality interview. When typically I’m recording interviews and about 30 to 45 minute increments, depending on the guest, depending on what I have going on.

So I know, okay, if I have a 30 minute slot today and I have calls starting 30 minutes after it, I want to make sure that I have a good quality 30 minutes with this podcast guest. And if they show up 10 minutes late, 15 minutes late, it’s just not, not going to be enjoyable. With that said, I’ve had this happen only one time, but where the guest reschedules a podcast interview and it was a certain individual where they rescheduled three different times about two minutes before the podcast interview.

went off and when that happens, it’s kind of frustrating for me because I do all the prep work on the backend of getting the interview, of making sure I’m prepped for the show. I make sure I’m mentally ready for the show. I have my microphone set up. I have my webcam set up. I have my ring light set up. Everything is good to go. And then you cancel. It’s like, okay, well, yeah, I spent a lot of time getting that all set up. Now I’ve got to get rid of it. And again, this is going to happen from time to time, but for this particular individual,

I think it happened three times and then he just didn’t reschedule for the fourth interview. So definitely a frustrating experience. It is making sure that you show up on time. With that said, make sure you have a good quality microphone and it’s very simple to get a good quality microphone. Right now I’m using the Blue Yeti mic. You can go out and get the Blue Snowball bike. You can do Audio Technica. Just go on Amazon, go on Best Buy, search podcast microphones. It’ll run you about 50 to 100 bucks for a decent quality mic.

Trevor Oldham (02:28.814)
and just make sure you have a good, decent quality mic. It’s really that simple. And with a good quality microphone, it should also be making, it should also be you have a nice backdrop. And what I mean by that is like if you’re in an office, if there’s not tons of people around you, there’s, you know, there’s things that aren’t too distracting when you’re on your podcast interviews. For me, I just do it from my office bedroom. I used to have a very nice office bedroom and then me and my wife when we had a little, our little daughter.

Things don’t change around I got put in the guest bedroom for the total trying to work out my background But I know I at least I wanted to be clean for the most part make it look nice professional And it just really just has to be that simple I would say and just a more of a quick tip If you’re using zoom you can blur out the background you can use a custom background When you’re doing it through Riverside, and that’s how I record my podcast interviews because I just found I like Riverside over zoom

is that I can’t use a custom background, just not a feature that’s available at the time. So what you see is what you get. What my background is, what my background actually is. So just wanted to make that reference to you. So just making sure you have a good quality background and not to go back and forth a little bit, but on the good quality microphone, I’m just thinking of stories. I’ve had people call in from their phone. I’ve actually had a guy call in, he was doing, he was on a drive through. I had people call in from the middle of the yard with AirPods in.

and everything is going to be picked up. If the sound quality is not great, it’s just not going to be a good interview. I’m just not going to be able to release the interview. It’s as simple as that. It’s going to be wasting my time. It’s going to be wasting your time. And that’s not what we want to see. When you are on the podcast, you want to make sure that you have stories to share. And over time, it’ll be a little bit easier for you to figure out what stories you can share, which ones maybe you want to pack away, aren’t going to be making that much of an impact. And again, this is going to come.

over time but you’re also not on the podcast to sell. Yeah I could go on the podcast and state why we’re the best podcast booking company out there, why you should work with us, why our clients work with us, the results that we’ve gotten. But I mean that’s not what I’m there to do. It’s not like I’m on like a sales call and someone’s asking me for background on my company. Yeah I’m happy to share that information if a host wants to bring it up but more often than not I’m there to teach folks. And for me I want to teach folks hey here’s how you can get a good quality

Trevor Oldham (04:51.822)
Microphone here’s how you can put together a nice pitch. Here’s what you should be reaching out to and saying to the podcast host Here’s how you can track your leads within the podcast interview that you do and it’s just simple things like that where I’m just providing helpful content because I know There are people out there like myself when I first got started where you could go on and I was pitching myself I didn’t have any money. I was just bootstrapping the company along. I was trying to grow the company No extra budget out there and there are people

that are perfectly capable of going out there and reaching out the podcast. But then where my company would come in is that if someone doesn’t have that time, then we could do that for them. And that’s really what I’m going on these podcasts, interviews and being a guest. I’m just trying to be as helpful as I can and allowing the listeners to determine, yeah, I can do that on my owner. Or maybe I should hire his company without me explicitly stating why again, just trying to provide helpful content. And on any podcast,

that you do. And I don’t think I’ve ever been on one where this hasn’t been the case. You get to the end of the show, the podcast host will usually say, okay, where can our audience learn more about you? Then you’d say, whatever your website, whether your social media, whatever it may be. So that way you point them in a direction where you don’t have to sell on the podcast. If you provide enough helpful information, you’re going to be able to sell yourself without, you know, quotations selling anything. And then after that,

The podcast host has gone through a lot of work. Like I mentioned, I prep for the interviews and the podcast host preps for the interviews. They get all set up. They’re going to be spending 15, 30, 60 minutes of their time. And like for me, I prep for the interview. I, you know, making sure I know what I’m going to be talking about on the interview. I get set up. And then after the interview goes live, I hire a YouTube video editor to edit the podcast or edit it for YouTube. I hire someone to create social media snippets.

of the interview. So I’m spending not only my time, but a good chunk of change to make sure that it is professionally done. And then if I send the podcast interview off to you and I don’t even hear back, I don’t even say you have to share the social media clips. I like it so I can share it on my company’s social media, promote the guests, make us look a little bit more professional, a little more credibility. But if I go through all these extra steps and I send it off to you and I can’t get a simple thank you on an email back, you know, it becomes a little.

Trevor Oldham (07:14.222)
a little discouraging just because there’s so much work that goes into doing a podcast. And again, if you’re going to be a guest on a podcast and you’re like, you know, I’m, you know, I got my own social media content. I’m not going to share with that company with that host put together for you. That’s perfectly fine. But at least just say, thanks. You know, thanks for letting me know that I went live. I really appreciate it. Just something like that is going to be very, it’s very simple, very impactful for the podcast. So it’s the me sending off, Hey, your interview has gone live. No crickets. Don’t hear anything.

That’s not what I want to hear, but I hope that was helpful for you. It really is not that hard to be a great podcast guest. And I think that checklist is something that you can definitely follow when you’re going out there and being a guest on podcasts.





REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Achieving Financial Freedom Through Turnkey Investing with Zach Lemaster

On this episode, Zach Lemaster, the founder of Rent to Retirement, shares his journey from being a healthcare professional to a successful real estate investor. He explains how his company helps investors own turnkey properties in the best markets across the country. Zach discusses the process of investing out of state and building a team in different markets. He emphasizes the importance of cash flow and appreciation in real estate investing and shares his strategy for early retirement. Zach also highlights the tax benefits of real estate and how investors can maximize them.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 


What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Rent to Retirement helps investors own turnkey properties in the best markets across the country.
    • Investing out of state requires building a team and conducting thorough research on markets and properties.
    • Cash flow and appreciation are both important factors to consider in real estate investing.
    • Maximizing tax benefits is crucial for building wealth through real estate.
    • Real estate offers more tax benefits than any other asset class. Cost segregation allows for the acceleration of depreciation and can significantly lower tax liability.
    • Qualifying as a real estate professional can enhance the benefits of cost segregation.
    • Passive losses can be offset against active income up to $28,000 for individuals earning $150,000 or less.
    • Short-term rental properties can be used to self-manage and take advantage of accelerated depreciation without being a real estate professional.
    • Creative financing options, such as low down payment loans and interest rate buydowns, can help investors reduce tax liability and maximize cash flow.

Connect with Zach:


Want to get booked on podcasts? 👇 


Learn how to master podcasts for business growth 👇 

Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:04.309)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the REI Marketing Secrets podcast. Today on the show, we have Zach Leemaster. Zach, for our audience out there who’s just learning about yourself and your company for the very first time. Do you mind just going into a little bit about your background and what your company does?

Zach Lemaster (00:20.65)
Yeah, absolutely. And thanks so much for having me on Trevor. I’m very excited to be here. Um, so our company rent to retirement is, uh, the nation’s leading turnkey investment company, essentially what we do is identify the best markets throughout the country where we see opportunity and make turnkey properties available to, to our investors where they can actually physically own properties across the nation and some of the best markets where we’re handling everything for them, this is.

You know, management, assisting them with financing, building a strategy to expand their portfolio. So that’s essentially what our company does. Just to give you a little background on myself. So like many of us that find ourselves full-time real estate investors, I didn’t start here. Uh, my background is in healthcare. My wife and I are both optometrists by education. Um, we went to school in Oregon. That’s where we met. I was on air force scholarship, uh, for school. So joined the air force as a captain for seven years. That’s where I started investing in real estate. First house was a house hack duplex lives in half run out the other half.

Uh, fell in love with real estate, very tangible. And from there, I just kept buying rental real estate. And that was locally where we started out because that’s what I knew and felt comfortable with, but there was a pivotable moment in that, uh, that really changed the trajectory of our lives, uh, in general, but certainly our business and our investing trajectory. And that’s when we decided to learn how to invest out of state, uh, Trevor. And this was very powerful because we were successful investors locally. Um, but once we made the U S our entire landscape and, and learned how to identify some markets that had.

You know, more affordability as far as purchase price and entry point, better returns, better cashflow, better appreciation, um, and just better fit our goals. We were able to expand our portfolio across the country and that it took many years to do that. That wasn’t easy. We made a lot of mistakes, but we built a system and process around that where we were able to eventually retire ourselves from our, uh, professional career paths in, in healthcare. And that caught a lot of people’s attention.

Um, where we had friends and family and colleagues that were coming to us saying, Hey, we see what you’re doing in real estate. That seems very interesting. Uh, can you help us? Right? Can we invest with you? Can you show us how to invest? Uh, can, you know, give you money, whatever the case is. I mean, they were looking for resources to invest. Maybe their local market was too expensive or they needed some handholding, whatever the case is, and that was the birthplace of rental retirement. So fast forward 10 years later, where we’re at now, you know, we’re, we work nationwide. Uh, we really focus on like the Midwest and Southeast, especially Southeast and

Zach Lemaster (02:37.09)
build to rent new construction, single family, small multifamily, where we can offer investors the option to buy those properties and make smart cashflow decisions, uh, where they’re actually a hundred percent owner of the property where we handle everything for them. And you know, the rest is history. So.

Trevor Oldham (02:54.649)
What was that process like going out and investing on a stake? So I think to myself where, one, when I was living in Massachusetts, the numbers just didn’t make sense. It just, they just weren’t working out just how expensive the properties were. But now I’m in New York and that’s where I live now. And the numbers do make sense. I could go out and I could buy, I don’t know, I think I saw like a $250,000 property, make a cash flow, it would hit the 1% rule. So $2,500, $3,000 a month, but I don’t like New York just.

given the blue state and given the thing, they’re like trying to pass a new law that’s gonna hurt landlords even more. So I wouldn’t wanna invest here, just I think it’s too much red tape. So for me, I would wanna go out and I would wanna invest like you mentioned, the states like the Midwest, maybe the Southwest, maybe Southeast, the states that are more landlord friendly. But how did you like put together that process? How did you get that boots on the ground team? Because let’s say you are, like you mentioned you’re in Oregon and you decide, hey, I wanna go out and I wanna invest in.

Ohio, maybe Cleveland, Ohio, maybe the suburbs of Cleveland, maybe Toledo, Akron, wherever. How did you build that process out and how did you get that team ready to go to one, find the properties and then two, to build the property management team? Because I would imagine you weren’t going to be managing it yourself all the way across the coast.

Zach Lemaster (04:07.914)
Yeah, I mean, uh, it was a lot of mistakes and, and tenacity, right. Uh, but actually our first forte into investing out of state was actually turnkey, uh, and it wasn’t a good experience. Um, I think many people, when they, they look to invest out of state, they, they learn about the concept of turnkey. And this is a buzzword out there. Um, and as we were talking before the show, there’s been some turnkey, um, operators out there, like any business, especially in real estate that, you know, maybe didn’t have.

good experiences for people. Um, and we were, we were one of those. We bought South side, Chicago, um, houses, uh, duplexes called them flats, like two flats and three flats. Um, basically they were tiered, um, multifamily, um, and they were in D or possibly F class type of locations, great renovation by the provider, um, but just really bad experience on the management side, we lost money on all of those and ended up liquidating them.

But that was our first experience investing out of state and it wasn’t good. And so from that, we decided that, Hey, we like the idea of making the USR landscape and identifying markets where we get better returns. Um, and to diversify and scale up portfolio quicker, but we need to build our own teams from the ground up, right? Like we need to do this. Um, and it, it was a lot of trial and error, just like with anything. So finding, I mean, we have a, we have a systematic approach now that we’ve built for many years.

Um, but in the very beginning it was, it was difficult because you don’t know a market, you don’t maybe don’t know which market to identify. There’s a lot of different markets to look at. And then it’s like, how do you build the team in those areas? And you need key people, right? You need to keep broker to help you find the deals and you keep property management. You need a lender that’s going to actually be able to finance in those areas. Um, right. Insurance. These are all things that we just basically had to piece together slowly over time, networking with the right people, asking for referrals at the end of the day, Trevor is just trial and error, right? Like.

finding a good contractor in these areas. Certainly we did research and got recommendations from people and local brokers and real estate groups, but at the end of the day, we just had to try them out, right? And for the same thing for property management, uh, where, you know, you sometimes have to go through 10 or 20 bad ones to find a good one. And then you, you know, you really partner with, with the good one. Now our process, when we open up a new market is, is much more streamlined. Like we have a whole thorough vetting process, our company, obviously, um,

Zach Lemaster (06:27.602)
Has the reputation and the ability to go out and leverage current existing relationships, and sometimes even created teams from the ground up, or we’ve been able to partner with the local management team to expand on their current operations and add best practices from what we’ve seen in other markets. So it’s been a long journey, but certainly we, we have some scars from our first forte into investing out of state.

Trevor Oldham (06:50.877)
Yeah, definitely. I feel that even just going out there and trying to build a company, you could hire like folks that you think are going to be phenomenal. And then they just don’t turn out to be that way. Even, even like my company, I’ve gotten good recommendations for employees and you hire them and it just, it doesn’t work out for a reason. Like you mentioned, it’s, it’s a lot of trial and error. It’s a lot of pain points to, to get to that point. But I’m, I like what you mentioned about turnkey, you know, it’s been thrown around the industry a little bit and

I think where I’m getting at with this is trying to think like how turnkey is the operation. What I mean by that is I’d say I’m a passive investor like I am and I’m investing in a couple of deals. I still got to be active to a degree where I still got to like vet the deals. I got to look at the deals, make sure it makes sense for, you know, if I’m a cash flow investor and it’s a pure equity play, appreciation play, then that deal is not going to make sense for me. But when it comes to the turnkey aspect of it for your investors, when you’re like talking to them, is it, you know, are you going through like what they’re looking to invest in the different markets that they’re…

that they want to go through? Or is it like, hey, we have these properties, let us know what you think. And then, so I guess that’s the first question. And then the second one would be from the turnkey aspect of it, would it be like, hey, we’re going to cover our property management teams in place, anything under $500 in expense, we’re going to go out and do it. Let’s say the tenant calls and we have to fix a light bulb or we have to, just simple things like that. Now we need to replace the stove or the dishwasher, whatever it may be. Obviously that’s going to be a bigger expense and we’re going to have to get in contact.

get in contact with you to get your approval on that expense. It’s just curious what it looks like, what someone could expect when talking to your company and then when working with your company.

Zach Lemaster (08:24.822)
Certainly. And so we’ll, I mean, we, we definitely have procedures in place on, you know, management, um, like you mentioned in your, your second question in your example, uh, you know, like expense thresholds and things like this, but just backing up for a sec. I mean the whole, and then we’ll walk through the client journey too. I think answer both questions thoroughly, but the, you know, this whole concept of passive income is, is interesting. People love the idea, uh, and myself included of having an asset that works for you, which real estate can be.

Um, you know, but I, I really think there is no true, there’s no such thing as true passive income out there because you always need to be managing your money, right? Whether you’re investing in a syndication deal where you’re giving, you’re actually turning over control and money to someone. Hopefully they, they are managing the project appropriately. You still need to vet them appropriately on the front end. You do need to make sure that they all be, you have limited control. You still need to make sure they’re performing well, right. And doing their accounting accurately.

And you also need to make sure that you’re setting up your own financial situation, um, both legally and just the structure and strategy financially internally. So you, you always need to be conscious and manage your money to some degree. Now in turn, in the turnkey space, you are still physically owning rental real estate, right? You are a hundred percent the owner. And so you’re the one taking the risk, going in the real estate. You’re the one taking the financing. You’re the owner of the property. And even though we have management in place for each one of these properties, like sometimes you have to manage your property manager. A lot of that is just coaching.

and educating people on how to do that appropriately, even if we have all the systems set up in place. But this is still very much property ownership. And I do think that is, you know, if that’s something you wanna do, actually own physical properties, I think this is definitely on the more passive end of the spectrum, because you’re not managing the properties. We have a very systematic approach to help you identify which markets and properties meet your goals. We have our fundamental criteria, right? We wanna be, to your earlier point about New York, we wanna be in areas that have landlord friendly legislation.

low taxes, future population, economic growth. So we’re in the path of progress for appreciation and rents and home prices. We wanna be in areas that have a diversity of industries. There’s 7.2, there’s a deficit of 7.2 million houses in the U.S. We wanna be in areas where we have an undersupply of housing. So all these things are important to be conscious about where to invest, but the client journey essentially is, if you’re interested in investing out of state or owning a real estate, expanding your portfolio, whatever the case is, you’re thinking about turnkey. The first thing we wanna do is have a consultation with you to learn about.

Zach Lemaster (10:45.858)
like your goals and your strategy. Because one person may be more focused on equity growth, as you mentioned, and appreciation. We still have our fundamentals for cashflow that every deal should adhere to. But there’s certainly different markets that might be better suited for the investor based on their goals, criteria, timeline, resources available. And then we wanna work through a strategy to make sure that you’re maximizing your tax benefits, right? There’s different creative financing options available that may help to expedite your goals. So it’s much more beyond just

Trevor Oldham (10:51.417)
Thank you.

Zach Lemaster (11:15.03)
buying, just buying a marketplace to buy turnkey and properties is about the team you’re working with to build out that strategy and help to expedite your ultimate goals. But the first thing we do is jump on a consultation with you. We don’t charge investors anything. We make our money through building and selling houses. Um, the, we want to make sure that we spend ample time with you to understand what you’re trying to accomplish. And then we look at kind of the, the high level structure, what type of financing makes the most sense, what lenders are you in touch with?

which markets make the most sense for you based on price points, based on your goals. And how are we structuring the tax strategy to allow you to scale quicker, right? Because we all run out of money and down payments are like, you know, capital is the most limiting factor. So you can be a creative investor where, you know, maybe you’re using one of these loans we have where you put 5% down or possibly no money down to get into a deal. And you’re maximizing the tax benefits of that, that might help to expedite your goals, invest the retirement vehicle, something like that. So hopefully I answered your questions. There’s a little bit all over the place. I think on the.

how turnkey this is, I mean, and how passive it can be. It’s very involved in the front end. You need to, and I think you should be involved, right? You need to understand what your goals and your strategy are. You need to apply for a loan. You need to identify the property, go through the transaction. This is normal closing process, appraisals, inspection, et cetera, but the idea is that once you have a plan, you execute that plan, you buy the properties, you’re set up with management, you know, assuming management’s doing their job, which they should be doing.

Um, you know, you should receive passive income on a monthly basis, but it is a good idea to check in with your management, especially in those first, like 90 days, build good rapport, build good expectations, understand what their process is, and then focus on the bigger picture things, which is how you scale to accomplish your goals.

Trevor Oldham (12:57.245)
Yeah, I think there’s just so much there. I want to dive in. And I think the one area where I want to go right now is, as you mentioned, I know I talked about it a little bit before, but you have your equity play and you have your more of your cashflow play. And touching back to your story, in my mind I’m just thinking theoretically, just make it simple 25,000, let’s say someone invested, you know, in a cheaper home, let’s say the home was 125,000, they’re maybe going more your Midwest, maybe more of your C-class property, 25,000, let’s say they got an 8% return.

make it easy to a hundred bucks a month, whatever the numbers may come out. When it came to you working through and going through and realizing like, hey, like I can actually have the option to choose early retirement from investing in these properties. How did you sort of build your strategy? Was it like, hey, if I go out and buy, you know, 15 to 20 of these properties, cashflow and $200 each, I know I’m gonna have the pay down over time. Maybe I put 15 year mortgages on them instead of 30 years.

those numbers work for me or I just keep them at 30 years and I know within 30 years, I’m going to have all those properties paid off and get that additional cashflow. Curious how like you worked your strategy out, you know, from doing from the turnkey’s perspective to helping you achieve that early retirement.

Zach Lemaster (14:08.858)
It’s been an evolution over time and evolution about how we think about money, how we think about, um, just investing in general, what types of properties we invest in, um, and where we’re personally at financially. And I think a lot of people go through this, this same thought process early on in investing. The most, the thing that most investors are conscious of is, is cashflow, especially if they have this idea of like early retirement or financial independence or whatever the case is, you can kind of reverse engineer to your point.

reverse engineer how many, how many properties you need to reach X amount of dollars, most common number we hear from people is $10,000 a month, probably just cause that’s a round number, right? So the beautiful thing with cash cashflow at $10,000 a month with rental properties is if you, especially if you have leverage on those, that’s probably, that’s probably tax free.

which would be the equivalent of 16, $17,000 a month or whatever of earned income. But essentially the first goal like financial independence, a lot of people look to achieve is just covering their expenses, three, $5,000 a month, whatever that is. And it’s just buying properties. And that was very much where we started as well. It’s just let’s buy as many properties. And I’ve been investing for about 15 years now, Trevor, and I’ve never.

taken a year off. There’s never been one year that I haven’t bought properties, regardless of interest rates, market cycle, COVID, whatever the case is, because we’ve always invested for fundamentals and we know that real estate will perform over, over the longterm, right? Things compound. And it’s a cool point when you get to where your properties, you’re buying properties, either through reinvesting your cashflow or 1031 exchanging. But the first point we got to was, okay, we covered our expenses.

Great, but like we want to do more and, and we were becoming more savvy investors. We started investing out of state. Um, and we were always looking at cashflow. I think early on it was always like, how do we maximize the cashflow on the properties? As we own real estate over time, we began to see that actually wealth is built more so in being in growth areas. For example, I was stationed in North Dakota, uh, in the air force. And that’s where we bought some of our first properties. We can cashflow well in North Dakota, but it’s not a real appreciating market, at least in the areas we were at.

Trevor Oldham (15:56.758)

Zach Lemaster (16:07.35)
And so we, we invested more in the Southeast specifically, new construction where after two to four years, I mean, those houses, some of them doubled. Uh, but they appreciated extremely well where it’s like, Hey, all of a sudden we can take out an equity line of credit. We can do cash out refinance. We can sell them 1031 exchange those and just like double our portfolio without having to inject more capital. And so the light bulb went off where it’s like, maybe we need to be a little bit more conscious of.

growth areas and this is the direction we personally went in our investing in the and what we try to be very conscious of with our business model as well. And that allowed us to replace our active income as doctors, you know, and within not it didn’t take a lifetime. It didn’t happen overnight, but within a relatively short period of time of intentional investing, we were able to do that through scaling our portfolio. Now at the point where we’re at, when we own a large eight figure portfolio personally, that cash flows over seven figures annually net.

And the biggest conscious thing that we focus on is tax benefits, right? Every property we buy, we run accelerated depreciation on. We look at doing 1031 exchanges and all of those to, to pass those deferred taxes forward, we do things like deferred sales trusts and just a lot of different creative tax strategies, because we know time value of money, if we can defer taxes, that’s money, more money we have today.

Trevor Oldham (17:03.692)

Zach Lemaster (17:24.802)
that then we can reinvest and actually earn an income on versus giving it to uncle Sam. It’s timely that we’re having this podcast on tax week, you know, but that’s our main strategy now is focusing on appreciating. This is just personally appreciating areas where we can maximize tax benefits, roll that money forward and just continue to grow that way. So it’s been an evolution over time as our net worth is growing and the more savvy investors that we’ve become.

Trevor Oldham (17:34.681)

Trevor Oldham (17:50.409)
Yeah, that’s a super smart strategy thinking of those areas where like in my area, I know I could cash flow But if I buy property for 300,000 maybe in 10 years, it might be 320,000 325,000 But it hits that 1% role, but it’s not gonna it’s not gonna really appreciate where my family in Massachusetts like my dad I think he bought his house Five to seven years ago now for you know, 365,000 now It’s worth like 650,000 and he you know, he basically only redid the kitchen but it’s just because the area and where they live is just

exploding with growth opportunities. So he gets that ton of that appreciation on that aspect of it. But I want to dive into a little bit further into the tax benefits and just get some clarification for our audience. Because that’s probably the number one reason I really enjoy investing in real estate. I think last year, all the income I made for my passive investments, every one of them, they went through, they had the cost segregation study, the depreciation came on. So even ones that I was making like 200 bucks a month on.

you know, I got my tax return shows a net loss of like $100. Even though I, I made $2,400, I’m able to take that money on that particular investment and, and save it to reinvest into my next deal. I wish I had that real estate professional tax status so I could claim, you know, deduct that extra a hundred bucks, but neither here nor there. But yeah, I love for you just to go into like how you’ve been able to use like that depreciation benefit. Like you mentioned that accelerated depreciation to really offset some of your taxes, because I think so many people get upset and I

you know, whether you like him or hate him, but you could think of like Donald Trump and folks, you know, with him, like he just has, he just uses this depreciation on his property. So it really lowers his income. And then obviously he has the real estate professional tax status. So people get upset because he’s not paying that much in taxes, but it’s just written in the tax code. You know, I could use it. You could obviously you’re using it. So, but for our audience out there, I’d love for you just to go a little bit further into how you’ve been able to benefit from using some of the different tax strategies, you know, to really

offset some of these taxes or just push them down the road or you mentioned like that 1031 exchange where you just keep putting it off and hopefully never have to pay taxes on those particular properties. Just how investing in real estate has really benefited you from a tax wise because you could think a lot of our audience is those high income professionals. So folks that are earning 200k plus a year, obviously in a W-2, they’re just getting hammered with taxes. Obviously, if they get a bonus, they’re getting crushed with taxes there. They might get a 50k bonus and they get 15k.

Trevor Oldham (20:12.141)
20k after it because Uncle Sam Dips is talking into it. So yeah, just curious from the tax benefits and how you’ve really been able to benefit from it.

Zach Lemaster (20:20.782)
Certainly. And if anyone listens to me ever on podcasts or YouTube channel or whatever, this is the point that I’m extremely passionate about because I feel like it makes the biggest impact on your financial scenario. Real estate offers more tax benefits than any other asset class and this is what the wealthy people are doing. They’re using leverage, they’re buying assets. Think about this for a big picture and then I’ll answer your question. But real estate, it’s an asset where you can…

borrow someone’s money, either bank or private lender, you can buy an asset that you have 100% control ownership and receive 100% of the benefits from income and taxes from that someone else pays off the loan for you, i.e. the tenant, right? So this is what the wealthy do. They use other people’s money, they acquire assets, and then they maximize their tax benefits and they reinvest their interest, they reinvest the equity and they continue to.

row and amass these large portfolios. And when you look at it from that perspective, like, you know, most people that are building mass wealth in real estate, yes, cashflow is a good byproduct to cover the investment, but they are more focused on the growth versus the actual cash flow. But these are some of the strategies that we’ve employed in our personal lives and we help investors work with on an individual basis. So I’ll talk about my, my scenario, but I also want to talk about from some of our like use some examples from some of our investors. So.

One of the biggest things, the benefits right now is as we, since we’re talking about is cost segregation, right? This is basically where you can accelerate a portion of the depreciation to take in year one. Uh, and anyone can do this. If you are the big benefit though, where it makes a big impact is if you can qualify as a real estate professional, which there’s hours associated with this. And you know, there’s things, I mean, if you’re a full-time employed person and you’re beginning a new real estate investor, maybe you can qualify for it, but maybe you have a spouse that works part time or doesn’t work and they could qualify for that and you combine.

Combine that when you file your taxes and still get those benefits. I mean, these are all strategically things we work with individual clients, but that’s one of the biggest and most impactful things you can do is accelerate depreciation. And where that becomes powerful is where you can take this passive loss and offset against your active income to your W-2 job or all sorts of income. It just lowers your tax basis. So if you buy a million dollar property, our cost segregation studies, which are an engineer report showing all the things of five and 15 year life on the property that can be accelerated into year one.

Zach Lemaster (22:40.106)
and depreciated that year. They usually come in between 30 to 35%. We’ve had some come in on commercial assets over 40%, but we usually use 30% as a general calculation. And this would be at 100% bonus depreciation, which may come back into play here. We’ll see. But a million dollar property, $300,000 of accelerated depreciation. That means you still have, and not talk about removing land just for simplistic purposes, you have $700,000 that are still normal depreciation. You take over the next 27 and a half years or 39 in commercial.

And that $300,000 you offset on your income from day one, right? This year. So that could save you, depending on your tax bracket, hundreds of thousands of dollars of actual taxes that you would otherwise pay to then reinvest, earn income on, earn interest on, and then buy more properties to run accelerated depreciation. That has been the biggest play that many people have used while we’ve had benefit from that from the 2017 tax act. And likely they’ll come back to bonus depreciation hopefully here soon. Um, as that bill is currently sitting in the Senate.

Um, but there’s many other tax benefits. Well, before I move on from cost seg, I mean, just being, just being conscious and working with a good real estate savvy CPA is, is so vitally important that way that so many people don’t fully understand all the tax benefits, they understand like, Oh, you get it right off mortgage interest. You get normal depreciation. Like great. My cashflow is like to your example, your cashflow is offset by, by just normal tax benefits and depreciation. It’s tax free cashflow, right? Um,

Trevor Oldham (23:46.585)

Zach Lemaster (24:04.106)
However, there’s a lot of other things, for example, and don’t quote me exactly on this, I’m not a CPA, but you know, if you’re, if you earn $150,000 or less, and I believe this is combined. Um, but if you’re in this income bracket or below it, you know, anyone can take passive losses against active income up to, I believe it’s $28,000. Um, so, I mean, if you earn a hundred K a year, you, you might want to do a cost sag to take, get 20, $28,000. Just that’s a huge tax benefits, right? That’s more than you can put into an IRA HSA. Um,

whatever the case. So that’s something to be conscious of. Also one creative thing we work with, uh, with investors that aren’t real estate professionals, Trevor, is that there’s a short-term loophole here. And I just want to say this first. All the things we’re talking about, this isn’t sneaky stuff. This isn’t a gray area with the IRS. This is stuff that IRS encourages us to do as real estate investors to stimulate the economy, right? We are incentivized because we’re creating jobs or creating housing for people, we’re stimulating the economy to do these things and there are encouraged to do this stuff. So this isn’t about.

Not like just trying to pay taxes or not sneaky ways, not to pay taxes. This is what the IRS wants us to do. Um, but there is a way where, Hey, if you’re not a real estate professional, let’s say you and your spouse are both, uh, employed full time. Um, and you still, you, you have a high income and you’re paying high taxes and you, and you want to use accelerated depreciation, you can buy a short term rental property and self manage it for the first year, because that’s the year that you put it into service.

So we have a lot of new construction properties that people will, and we teach you how to do that. We teach you how to furnish it, how to self manage it from a distance. Very easy to do, even though it may seem daunting, you can still run accelerated depreciation on and take that against your, your active income without RE Pro. Even if this is the first property you buy. And then the next year you can decide if you want to continue to self manage it, which a lot of our investors do because they find out it’s not that difficult or they can, um, you know, turn it over to management because after you, after you do the cost, like it doesn’t matter. So that’s one of many things. Um, 1031 exchange is also a huge.

Huge thing because depreciation is recapturable. When you sell property, you have to pay capital gains on it, which could be a huge chunk of your equity that you build. However, you can roll that forward. And we kind of use the term swap till you drop. And you alluded to this earlier, you can do 1031 exchanges forever. And then you pass it on to your kids, they get a step up basis and that depreciation is never recaptured. That’s another thing that we work with people on. We also have creative financing options. We had a doctor, investor of ours that…

Zach Lemaster (26:25.122)
Basically, you know, he was paying six figures in taxes every single year and it was painful. And so, and he had about, I think it was 150, 120, 150 to invest that year. And we showed him how he could use creative financing options to buy some investment properties where he got into those with, actually it was very little down. We have credit unions that will do 5% down loans on up to 5 investment properties. These are not primary residences. They’re true investment properties. This is a portfolio loan where you can buy multiple properties with 5% down.

We have a program where we will, we will actually pay the 5% down on select inventory. He still had some closing costs and things like that, but he was able to buy, um, a ton of properties with little to no money down. And he invested a portion of that 150 K that he had, um, to buy more properties where he was able to wipe out his entire tax liability for that year, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars that now he gets to reinvest by using some of these.

creative financing properties. These are all new construction properties in the Southeast that are growth areas. They have positive cashflow, but then, you know, they’ll also be positioned for strong appreciation, which he’ll get a tap into in the future as well. So I mean, there’s just so many things we could talk all day on this, but there’s so many different creative strategies that you can use to reduce your tax liability because that is taxes are the biggest expense we’re all going to pay in our lives. Right. And that is the easiest way to give yourself an immediate raise. And if you understand the time value of money, once you give money to Uncle Sam, it’s gone.

Trevor Oldham (27:42.969)
Thank you.

Zach Lemaster (27:51.03)
But if you can actually save that, whether it’s not paying taxes all or deferring those taxes, even a few years to actually go out and make other investments and earn an income and buy another property that’s again, appreciating this cash flowing that it has another depreciation schedule you can use. I mean, this stuff just snowballs and compounds. And so we, we learned that early on where it’s like, man, the more that all these strategies we can combine to actually own more rental real estate, you can amass a large portfolio in a relatively short period of time, just let real estate do what it does over time.

And, you know, build, build significant wealth. So I know I went off on a few tangents there, but hopefully I answered your question.

Trevor Oldham (28:25.353)
Yeah, that was perfect. And I was thinking through the creative financing aspect of it. And with that, so let’s say someone comes in, like you mentioned that doctor, they’re financing say 95% LTV. How does the, how does it work? Or how does it, how, how does the deal make sense? Is it, is it because it’s BTR? I’m just thinking like, you know, I’m looking at like commercial property. So you’re looking at a hundred UN multifamily, you know, you usually got to be at least 80, 80% LTV. Usually you want to be at least right now, maybe 60, 70%.

LTV just given the market conditions. Just curious how the numbers are able to work even if someone is doing like a 95% LTV on that type of deal. Again, is it because it is BTR or is it because you’re just, these deals that you’re sourcing out are just very good because you’ve been in the space for a long time.

Zach Lemaster (29:09.378)
Well, it all depends on, I mean, and that was just one of many examples that we have available to our clients to help them accomplish their goals, whatever those goals are, because they’re very individualistic for each person. Um, but for on that specific example, so there are credit unions in specific geographical locations. This is not nationwide. These are not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac loans. These are portfolio lenders, um, that offer a 95% loan of value, um, on, on select new construction, single family residencies in select.

areas and mainly these are Southeast New Construction properties. And so what they’ll do, it’s a 10-year term, it’s a 30-year AM, and you still have to qualify for this, right? So you need to have a 720 credit minimum to at least get the full 95%. And you don’t have to do only 5% down. You could do 7%, 8% down, whatever the case is. In most of those cases, Trevor, you can imagine they’re probably not going to be positive cash flow or significant positive cash flow if you have a 95% loan on the property.

Someone that is doing that isn’t necessarily worried about cashflow. Uh, they’re worried if they want to maximize their capital and buy as much real estate as they possibly can and maximize their tax benefits. But again, you know, if you’re buying 95% LTV.

Um, and the property is negative $200 a month cashflow. Maybe it makes sense to put 8% down and have break even or slightly positive cashflow, it’s all deal dependent. Um, but at least you can stretch your capital further. And as I alluded to earlier, we have some programs where we will actually pay the 5% down so someone could come into, you know, a no money down type deal, or they have a few closing costs and alternatively, if someone had different goals where they wanted to maximize

cashflow, I mean, we could take that same 5% that we were going to pay for their down payment and we just reduce the purchase price. So on a $400,000 property, they get $20,000 of immediate equity. Maybe that makes more sense for someone in that scenario. And then they are cash flowing. They’re still putting the down payment down, but they get, they come into immediate equity where they can do cash out refi sooner, or maybe it makes sense to buy the interest rate down. We also have loans right now where, you know, 5% can be applied to buy the interest rate down to 3.99%.

Trevor Oldham (30:56.153)

Zach Lemaster (31:16.698)
And then all of a sudden their property and that’s a 10 year arm. So it’s a fixed interest rate at 3.9% for 10 years, which is a really good arm by the way. But you know, that property is going to cashflow significantly more than if you had your current 7% or whatever it is on that. So my point is, is that it’s very deal dependent, but there’s many ways to skin the cat with the same deal, right? Depending on your goals. If you want to maximize cashflow, great. Let’s focus on that. If you want to come into immediate equity, let’s look at that. If you want to…

You know, stretch your capital as far as you can to own as much as you can and maximize tax benefits, then that’s the strategy we’re going to focus on with you, but it all depends on what position you’re in, what you want to accomplish, what your timeline is.

Trevor Oldham (31:56.589)
Yeah, I think that’s perfect going back to the strategy aspect of it because again, I know we’ve talked about it before, but some folks maybe they just want to do more pure cash flow play. Maybe some folks want more of the tax strategy play. Some folks maybe want equity play. And I think for those listening, you really got to figure out what do you want to do on your own. I think that was a big learning curve for me is I was like, oh, I want to invest in this asset class. I want to invest in this property. Then all of a sudden I’m in a couple cash flow deals. I’m in a couple equity deals. And now I’m like…

I kind of wish I was just was all in cashflow. And it comes with learning experience, anything like that. But you really got to ask yourself, you know, what point? I found for me, it was like, what point? Or what do I want to achieve in my life? And for me, it was like, I want to achieve financial freedom. I want to have the cashflow coming in to just cover my monthly expenses and give me the choice. Hey, if I want to keep running my business, I can. Or if I want to do something else, I also have that option too, where the equity play could get me there, but there’s not going to be that immediate cashflow play, but I could get a higher return on the equity play just because there’s…

more risk, but then there’s going to be more rewards. You just got to think through everything and the different strategies like Zach mentioned out there. Everything out there, it sounds like his company is going to be deal by deal specific. It’s going to be specific to the individual and what you’re looking to achieve. So I think that was great. Really great going over that. But I’m curious, how has it been in the BTR space and going out there in the new construction space? I know I’m not so much now, but I know early on in the pandemic, it was like the cost of lumber was like…

through the roof, I think it’s come back down, come back down to earth now, but just curious how that transition has been more so from the properties maybe you were going out there and buying early on where again, let’s just say they were in the Midwest, they were just, they’re already built, maybe they’re built 70s, 80s, whatnot. And then now you’re going out and building out these new houses. How’s that sort of process been for your company moving from one sort of area into this other area within real estate?

Zach Lemaster (33:46.518)
Certainly. When you think about if anyone’s heard of turnkey before explored this or maybe even invested in turnkey, kind of the traditional, I guess, thought on turnkey or where most turnkey operators are focusing is exactly that the Midwestern property that’s 120,000, 150,000. It’s yeah, 1960, 70 house has been renovated and that’s, you know, that’s a good bread and butter rental property. It’s low capital to come in and buy that and it can provide good cashflow. It’s probably not going to be.

Um, in a market that’s appreciating dramatically over time and you will have, you know, maybe lower quality tenants as well as more maintenance with that property. That’s where our company started focusing on those. And we still do have those, those opportunities for people that are looking for a lower barrier of entry to, to buy properties and want to maximize cashflow. But about 70% of what we do is, is built to rent new construction, single family and small multifamily, mainly in the Southeast where there’s growth markets. And just over time, I’ve kind of come to realize that new construction,

will perform better over time. Not only with reduced maintenance, you’re in better class areas, attract better quality tenants. They are more expensive, so it requires more money down our average. You know, Midwestern property, 120, 150,000 for your three, four bedroom workforce housing. In the Southeast, you’re probably 250 to 300,000 for that same single family, but it’s a brand new built house in a class area, quality tenants that stay longer, they perform better. There’s more consistency with that, more predictability.

That’s what we like. But the big benefit is over time, new construction and growth areas, you’re going to have, even though the cashflow may be less, like if you’re comparing a Midwestern deal to a brand new construction, the new construction is more expensive. That rent to price ratio is probably a little bit lower, so the cashflow may not look as attractive. You may have a 6% cash on cash return, whereas you may have a 9% or 10% in the Midwest, right? So on the surface pro forma day one, that lower price property may look better.

The built rent and the new construction will perform better. They’ll have better appreciation and home prices, better appreciation rents. I mean, a lot of the markets, even over the past two years, which has been kind of a stagnant market in, or a little volatile market in a lot of places of the country, I mean, the areas that we focus on in Florida, Texas, Alabama, Carolinas, I mean, these are areas where we’re still seeing double digit appreciation, both the rents and home prices over time, just because it’s supply and demand, these are areas where the population is moving, there’s an under supply of housing.

Zach Lemaster (36:10.242)
And there’s demand to keep the houses rented and buyers as well. So, I mean, the common strategy would be someone that buys a property through a network they hold onto for four to five years, they let it appreciate the tenant pays a loan down a little bit. They have enough equity where they can 1031 exchange it and buy two or three other properties just by letting real estate do what it does. So it also helps them with their trajectory over time scale up quicker. Um, so we like new construction for all those reasons and man, it is just less tenant issues. It’s just less, it’s less noise. Um,

Trevor Oldham (36:37.121)
Thank you.

Zach Lemaster (36:40.042)
Yeah, but the construction market has been crazy. It’s, it’s been tough, right? I mean, financing has been tough, especially as, you know, maybe we had some construction loans that were at 3% that are now at 5% or 7% or some other loans that are up at 11% construction. So it’s like, you know, the construction market labor is limited materials. We still see some lingering things from COVID. So it’s been a tough market, but I think what served us well, um, and why I like working with investors, what’s allowed us to stay in business while a lot of builders struggled.

in this industry over the past three to five years is the simple fact that like we have consistent flow of business. We work with investors where they are consistently instead of the retail market where someone’s buying one house every seven years, you know, investors, most of our investors buying multiple properties both year one and year after year to scale their portfolio. And we focus on the real estate fundamentals. We want to be in growth areas want to be below the median house price point, which is, you know, give or take $400,000 across the US. You know, we try to be.

well below that so we have the highest pool for buyers, tenants, etc. and be in areas where, you know, we can still do well, even with fluctuating construction prices and all the stuff we all have to deal with.

Trevor Oldham (37:52.617)
Yeah, I really like that aspect of going into the new to you know, the new build. And like you mentioned for me, it almost seems like there’s going to be less headaches because you would think if you’re going along lines more class A than your class C property where yeah, class C. Yeah, it’s going to it’s going to look better. The price point maybe is $125,000 or the class A, you know, new build. I mean, not even class A, but just a very high end class B great, great neighborhood. Maybe you’re looking at $350,000, $400,000 and you look, oh, have I put

20% down on this on my cashflow the same as I do on this $150,000 property. But at the same point, there’s a lot less you have to deal with. There’s a lot less maintenance, there’s a lot less repairs. And then just overall, probably the tenant base, usually the folks I would imagine are moving into the single family homes or the built to rent space. Maybe they do have a family, they have good jobs, they have an overall higher income. And I think there’s studies out there where it’s just, it’s simple, folks that own a house typically are…

earn way more in their lifetime than those folks that just rent their entire lifetime. So I find that typically you would hope the folks that make more money are going to take better care of the property and then they have a nice single family home, the property is nice, they want to keep it that way, not to say that every tenant would be like that, but hopefully the majority of them are. Hopefully everyone’s respectful of the property that they’re living in, whether they’re renting it or whether it’s an apartment complex or whether it’s a single family home that they are going out there and renting out.

Zach Lemaster (39:16.074)
Well, if you have a tenant that’s paying $2,500 a month and a new construction, $300,000 house, that is a higher tenant demographic than someone that’s paying $1,200 a month. You know, now granted, you know, there could be a difference in wages across the country in different parts and, um, cost of living and things like that, but generally speaking, as you charge more for rent, you do get better quality tenants. But to your earlier point, Trevor, my advice to everyone, when you’re evaluating real estate, whether you’re looking at turnkey or otherwise. Don’t.

Trevor Oldham (39:25.098)

Zach Lemaster (39:43.042)
Fall into the trap of only looking at a pro forma that is year one analysis, right? A year one analysis is a snapshot near one and on our website, we actually have the wealth tracker as a free calculator that you can track your portfolio performance, not just one property, but multiple properties, but most importantly, you can forward project, you can look at whatever variables you want to punch in for appreciation and rent growth and amortization.

Uh, you can look forward thinking and say five, 10 years, if I buy X amount of properties, like this is where I’m going to be both cashflow and net worth wise. But I think that’s a really, a big thing that we learned over time is that we, early on, we just focused on cashflow, you know, year one projections, but you really need to understand how real estate works for you over time. Rents go up over time. So even though you’re cash on cash, maybe five, 6% today, your mortgage doesn’t change next year and next year, now the expenses would potentially less on new construction, but.

You know, your rent’s going up at our average rent increase every year is 6%. That’s double the national average. That’s because we’re in demand areas. And so looking, being forward, thinking about where is this property going to be in five or 10 years, both from an equity standpoint, as well as cashflow. Like that’s, that’s really important. And I think that will help you reverse engineer your buying decisions now based, based on your goals.

Trevor Oldham (40:57.509)
Yeah, I think that’s awesome. Really looking at like the long term picture instead of just coming in and thinking like, okay, yeah, it’s going to cash flow more, maybe cash flows 250 bucks instead of 150 bucks, year one. So I really I think that’s great that you explained that. But Zach, I just want to say I really enjoyed our interview today. And for our audience out there, where can they learn more about your company if they are interested in invested? Can they book a consultation call with your team? How does that look? And where should they go to?

Zach Lemaster (41:23.594)
Absolutely. I drive everyone to our website. That’s rent to rent to Um, we have a lot of resources on there. We have our own podcasts and YouTube channel. We put out a lot of information outside of just turnkey investing, right? Market data, tools and resources, lending options. Our goal is to add value to every single person, uh, that we come in contact with. Again, we don’t charge investors anything. We make our money through building and selling houses. And our goal is to ensure that our investors meet their

meet their expectations and have a good experience. So they come back to invest. So, and if you’re listening to this in the car, you can text REI to 33777. But yeah, we’d be happy to connect with you and have a consultation, see how we can add value to your investing strategy. Uh, regardless if you’re looking at turnkey or not, but be happy to discuss some of the creative financing options, bill to rent market data that we have. We were very passionate about real estate. So.

Trevor Oldham (42:16.87)
I’ll make sure to include that in today’s episode of Show Notes. And Zach, again, thank you so much for coming on to the show.

Zach Lemaster (42:22.338)
Thanks so much, Trevor.







REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

How To Get On Podcasts

On this episode, I’ll cover the strategy for getting on podcasts, including identifying the target audience, researching viable podcasts, building a list of potential podcasts, crafting a pitch, and being consistent in outreach.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 



Want to get booked on podcasts? 👇 


Learn how to master podcasts for business growth 👇 

Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:01.262)
I want to talk about what it takes to get on podcasts and how you can get on podcasts. It’s a pretty straightforward and simple strategy that you can follow. So the first thing that you want to do is you want to determine who is your target audience, who you’re looking to speak to. As an example, if you are a real estate investor, are you looking to raise capital from other real estate investors, high net worth investors?

your doctors, your lawyers, your dentists, your medical sales professionals. Does it make sense to go down that avenue? Or perhaps you’re a real estate coach and you’re looking to get folks within the real estate space to come and work with you. Maybe you’re an entrepreneur, maybe you’re a business owner, maybe you’re a health coach. You want to first determine who your target audience is going to be. And then based on your target audience, you want to research podcasts and make sure that there’s viability within those podcasts.

And what I mean by that, if you are a super niche down, I’m trying to think of different clients that we worked. If you’re a cryptocurrency client, it can be niche down. If you’re a specific type of real estate investor, it can also be niche down. So you want to make sure that there is some viability with the podcast you’re going to be looking for and that you’re going to be reaching out to. Once you do that, you’re going to want to start to build your list of podcasts. A couple of tools that I recommend is Raphonic, Wissa Notes,

iTunes can go through and you can start to pull shows. Now what I would recommend is that if you’ve never been on a podcast before and you want to start guesting on podcasts, you’re going to want to start on smaller podcasts. And what I mean by that are these are going to be your shows that are a little bit newer. Maybe they’re a month or two old, maybe even three months old and using listen notes, using Raphonic, you can definitely determine that using iTunes. I don’t think that there is a way.

to determine that, but that way if you’re going on these newer podcasts and you make a mistake, not that many people are going to be hearing about it, but if you are very successful, you just want to get booked on more podcasts, either you hire a company like ourselves or you go off and you have someone on your team help you out. You want to make sure that you’re going on these podcasts and you have your story down and you know what you’re going to be talking about within these podcasts.

Trevor Oldham (02:24.526)
And then from there, it’s going out and building your list. And what do I mean by building your list is initially you want to have a list of 10 to 20 podcasts you’re going to be reaching out to. So what I typically include in the list is it’s going to be the podcast name, the host name, the website, iTunes link, iTunes description, using some of the tools I recommend. It makes it a lot quicker and also get the contact information I found using these tools like Raphonic and listen notes.

not the email contact information isn’t 100 % accurate all the time. So I would take it with a grain of salt. So if you do come across and you do see their contact information, I would still go out and try to find the person’s website and make sure you do in fact have the correct information because you don’t want to be doing all this work on the backend and then put together this really good pitch, send it out and it’s just going to the wrong email or an email that the person doesn’t use anymore or it’s just not up to date. So you’re just going to want to go.

and be cognizant of that. And when you’re putting together your pitch, you want to determine what value are you going to add to the podcast host. For me, my value would be coming on and teaching their audience how they can either use podcast guesting or starting their own podcast to grow their business. So that’s the value that I come in. But before I tell the host exactly the value that I’m going to be adding to their audience, if they were to have me on as a guest, I always like to give a nice compliment to the podcast host themselves.

And typically it’s something like, Hey podcast host, I really enjoyed your interview with so -and -so and here’s why I enjoyed it. And I find that this process forces me to check out and actually listen to the host podcast. And then sometimes I find that like, this actually isn’t a fit for me. I’m glad I didn’t, you know, go through and send my pitch because it’s just not aligned with who my target audience is. So it gives you that extra step. So I’d recommend doing that as well. So you just want to make your pitch.

I say anywhere from two to three paragraphs. And what I mean by paragraphs is broken down into about two to three sentences each. No one wants to read a podcast pitch. That’s going to be super long. You just want to make it something simple like, Hey, here’s, here’s what I enjoyed about your podcast. Here’s a little bit about me. Let me know if you want me have on have, if you want to have me on as a podcast guest, again, super simple like that. You want to make it informative. And then you’re like, where do I put the rest of my information? If I’m going to,

Trevor Oldham (04:51.63)
We take in my 200 word bio and drumming it down into one or two sentences. Where should the rest of my bio be? And that’s when you’re gonna wanna put together your one sheet. And your good quality one sheet, you’re gonna have questions the host should ask you or can ask you, topics the host can ask you. Go deeper into your background. You’re gonna wanna give links to your social media, links to your website. You’re gonna wanna have it match the look and feel of your brand. I give some examples and another video if you’re watching this on YouTube.

and another podcast if you’re listening to this on our podcast. So you want to have a nice, good looking professional one sheet and you would want to include that one sheet in every single pitch. So what I do for us and for our clients is at the end of the podcast pitch will basically include the one sheet and be like, if you want more information, you’ll look at a, you know, me or a client in more depth. Here’s their one sheet. Here’s a chance for you to review it. And then after that, I mean, it’s really,

determining your target audience, determining what shows you wanna be reaching out to, and then putting together your pitch, putting together your one sheet, and then just reaching out to shows, and really just being consistent. I mean, it’s like anything else. You reach out to enough podcasts, eventually you’re gonna get booked on a show, and that’s just the way that it’s gonna happen, but you don’t wanna just, again, go on any single show that’s out there. You wanna make sure it makes sense for what you’re looking to do. I mean, time is very valuable for me, it’s for our clients, I’m sure it is for yourself.

you don’t want to just go on any podcast that’s out there and there’ll be weeks where even myself will reach out to 10 podcasts to get booked on as a guest. I’ll hear from no shows and just the way it happens. And then some weeks I’ll reach out to 10 shows. I’ll hear back from eight of them that want to have me on. So there is a lot of ebbs and flows when it comes to being a podcast guest and going out there and podcast guesting. But I’m hopeful that that gave you a good overview of what it looks like to be a podcast guest.





REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Maximizing Property ROI Through Tenant Submetering with Trevor Day

Trevor Day, Sales Manager at Submeter Solutions, discusses the benefits of submetering for utility billing in multifamily properties. Submeter Solutions provides customized billing services and utility meters for water, gas, and electric. By installing submeters in each unit, property owners can accurately bill residents for their individual usage, leading to a decrease in utility costs and a more efficient use of resources.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 


What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Submetering allows property owners to accurately bill residents for their individual utility usage.
    • Installing submeters can lead to a decrease in utility costs and a more efficient use of resources.
    • Submeter Solutions provides customized billing services and utility meters for water, gas, and electric.
    • The company also offers billing services to handle the administration of sending out bills and collecting utility costs.
    • The process of setting up the system involves answering questions about the property, installing the meters, and commissioning the system.
    • Fees for the hardware are a one-time cost, while billing services have a monthly fee.
    • Submeter Solutions is available nationwide and offers free estimates for interested property owners.

Connect with Trevor:


Want to get booked on podcasts? 👇 


Learn how to master podcasts for business growth 👇 

Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:03.054)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the REI Marketing Secrets podcast. Today on the show we have Trevor Day. And Trevor, for our audience out there, do you mind just going into a little bit about your background and what your company does? Yeah, I’d love to. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, so a little bit about me. I’ve been married for 15 years to my wife, Danielle. We have three boys, so our house is wild. But we’re passionate about foster care and we are a baseball family. So it’s spring and we’re just going into the wild season of Little League.

It’s just been a lot of fun. I attended the Art Institute of Seattle for video production and film. And so I did that. And then when I graduated, I actually worked at Amazon corporate for about four years and led a creative team there that did a bunch of animation and video and audio and photography and did that for about four years. And it was a really fun experience. Got to build that team. And then after that, I went to the end of the nonprofit space for a church in Dallas, Texas, originally from the Seattle area, moved there for about six years.

and led their production team and then their connections ministry. And so that was about 450 volunteers that we were seeing there and just made a lot of content and we’re helping them reach the community. And then I don’t know if you heard, but in 2020 COVID hit and it was wild. And so we decided to move back near family in the Seattle area. So I got a job at Subsplash, which does basically app development for nonprofits. And so I led an onboarding team and built that for them and helped.

churches get their apps on the Apple and Google stores and that process is hard. So we help them through that process to make sure that they’re not churning and leaving the platform. And then in 2021, my buddy works at Submeter Solutions where I am now and he said, hey, do you want to come over and do the sales and marketing thing? And so I’ve been doing that for the last two years and we built out a sales team and kind of a marketing funnel and done a lot of that stuff over the last two years. And…

What Submeter Solutions does is we provide customized billing services and utility meters for the multifamily space. So let’s say Trevor, that you owned like a 20 unit apartment complex and you were trying to figure out how you were gonna cover your water, gas and electric. Really the city just sends you one giant bill each month and you’re trying to figure out how to cover those costs. We provide the meters that go into each individual unit. And then there’s a cloud -based sub metering.

Trevor Oldham (02:25.134)
solution that we provide for that that gets all that usage online. You can review exactly what each resident is using. They only pay for what they use for. And then we provide the billing services on the side of that where we do all the administration of sending out those bills, collecting the utility costs for that. And really our hope in all this is to be able to maximize your property ROI, be able to recover all those utility costs and then save you a lot of time in the process. And so I’m excited to be able to jump in and talk to you about all that. Yeah, that’s perfect.

really enjoy that background, I must say. I have a 10 month old daughter and she’s a lot. Having three kids, she keeps us busy. I think I’m more, I work harder from five to nine taking care of her and even between me and my wife than working nine to five during the day. It’s a lot. But what I’m curious, when it comes to like,

sub -meter solutions in your product. Does it work across water, gas, electric? Is it just water and gas? What does that look like and what can someone expect, you know, the different types of utilities that your company can offer solutions for? Yeah, so we’re nationwide and we don’t have a unit minimum, which is a little bit different than our competitors. So if you have like a duplex, we’d love to talk to you and be able to figure that out for you. It works across all three utilities. What we’re what a majority of what we’re selling is water, because for some reason, water utilities don’t.

really want to deal with putting meters into each one of the units. They just want to put one meter in and then charge you for it. For like our area where we’re in Seattle, our electric utility provider normally puts in meters for each one of those. So a lot of what we’re doing is water, but we can provide it for water, gas or electric across any of those. And that goes for commercial or residential. We’re happy to provide that for any of those. Yeah, that’s awesome. I know it’s funny how they kind of cut corners, but to a degree maybe on that.

On the water aspect of it. Exactly. Something I thought was interesting you mentioned when you’re going through your bio was you can divvy it up between each resident and are you able to see, let’s just say, I don’t know this person, I don’t know exactly, I don’t know enough about water measurements, but I use like one gallon of water, hopefully more than that. And then this guy used two gallons of water. So he should be billed, you know, if it’s a $30 bill, he gets billed 20, I get billed 10. Are you able to do that? Or is it more like it just split, you know, equally among?

Trevor Oldham (04:46.638)
or four units or 80 units, 100, however big the apartment complex is or duplex? Yeah, that’s a great question. And this is where I think it becomes really, really helpful. So there’s two different things that happen. Like, obviously, the owner’s trying to recover all their utility costs because normally, like the mortgage is obviously the most expensive, but then normally the next like two or the third line item on their P &L is that utility costs because it’s just really, really expensive. And so when we put these in, you get exactly what you use. So if you’re…

living in one of these apartments, you could walk up and look at your utility meter, the sub metering that we’re putting in, and you would be able to say, okay, I’m getting billed for exactly what I’m using. So all we do is we look at the usage that’s online. And then we say, okay, the city is charging you this much per gallon. And then really, the sewer cost is normally the most expensive for processing that. And all they’re doing to get that calculation is saying, okay, you use this amount. And so that means that this amount went into the sewer system, and they’re charging you for that. And so that’s all we’re doing is we say, okay, this amount of

water went through your utility or your sub meter and now we’re going to charge you for exactly what you use. And what’s really interesting about this is there’s something that happens in a lot of residents brains where they’re like, okay, well, if I didn’t have to pay for exactly what I’m using, I’m just going to use whatever I want because just dividing out and it is what it is. But when we put these in, normally what we see is a 30 % 20 to 20, sorry, 20 to 30 % drop in the utility bill because people go, darn it, I’m using.

I’m using a lot like I’m paying for exactly what I use. So you don’t let Johnny take that long of a shower anymore. And you’re like really more conserving that amount of resource. And so there’s a really good benefit of you’re only paying for what you use for, but then you’re also conserving more of that resource that we’re using. So because you’re there’s this naturally in your brain, that’s kind of how it works. And the other cool thing is that normally what happens is owners will try and cover if you’re not sub metering, you’re trying to cover that in the rent. So you normally have to hike up.

rent to be able to cover that cost. And so normally when you can pull this out, you can actually decrease rents, which make it so you’re more market ready and be able to get that filled quicker. And then normally it also improves cap rate and property value because this has a system now installed. So if you’re ever to sell it, it’d be like, Hey, we have the sub metering system already in place and it allows future investors or if you’re going to sell it again to be able to make that a little bit more enticing for them. And then the last thing is that actually has built in leak detection. So it can detect

Trevor Oldham (07:09.678)
whether or not water’s flowing consistently. And so it’s not active where it’s like instantaneously, you know, but it can detect anomalies. So like, let’s say a toilet flapper was up or like you left the tap on or something like that. It’ll pop up a little text or an email and say, hey, you use what’s happening here. Like there’s something that you need to go check out and we can set that up. And then it’s not just that we have access to those reads. It’s also that you have access. So when you buy the system, you get access for free for life and you can be able to see all the usage and be able to know exactly what’s going on.

even if you decide not to use our billing services. And it really is just helpful to be able to see everything that’s going on in your property. Sometimes I wish I could have that in my house. I just think I had like these little, I have these little detectors I put under like all the sinks and they’ll go off like dull. It’s a very loud alarm sound. You know, it’s like a lead detection. I’ve had that go off at like two or three in the morning, just from like our sink, you know, in the summer humidity just drops a little droplet on and you’re scrambling out of bed.

Yeah, and I like the aspect where you talked about, I think back to myself when I had an apartment and I didn’t pay for water and I just, I feel like my usage was a little bit more than probably what I needed just because I knew I never have to pay for it. And I think back to that, I mean, it was like a 400 unit apartment complex. There was a ton of units and they’re covering the cost for all of that, for all those units. And it sounded like the apartment complex, typical syndication deal. You know, one company comes in,

tweaks a little bit, resells it and the next company is coming in. Where if they put a system like that in, then all of a sudden their expenses go down, the NOI goes up and then they can sell it. Sell it for more. But curious on the process when it comes to setting it up, the whole system, is it having to put someone in the field and go out to the property to set it up? Is it something that you can do on your end from your office? Just curious how that whole process works. Yeah. And I think one thing…

that is important to call out is like, it’s customized to each property. So each property has a way different story, which is like, it’s just, and I’m sure the property owners that they’re listening to this are like, yeah, each one of my properties is way different from the next. And so we work with you to be able to make sure that we’re providing you exactly what you need for each property. And the process looks like this. So basically, we’ll have you answer a bunch of questions for us, like, hey, what’s your property address, all that stuff to make sure we’re in accordance with different laws that are in the area.

Trevor Oldham (09:27.758)
And then we put together a full proposal for you for exactly what utility you need to have covered, what meters need to go where, if we need to like have a different repeaters to make sure we’re boosting the signal. It’s not super complex, but we’ll put it all together for you. And then we’ll review that for you. So it includes the hardware and it includes the billing services on both of that. And at that point, we provide the equipment for you. We don’t have plumbers or electricians on staff, but we work with people. Normally we try and say, Hey, what?

who’s a plumber that’s come on site before and knows this property? Who’s the electrician that’s done that? And most of the time it’s like, it’s Jim down the street. And then we talk to the plumber or the electrician and say, hey, this is what this process looks like. And most of them are really familiar with that process. And we say, hey, you’re gonna put it right after the shutoff valve. All the water is gonna go through that one meter or we have different solutions depending on how the plumbing is plumbed and different things. But at that point they would install the meter.

and turn the water back on, water would start flowing. Then we commission the system. So for larger projects, we’ll actually come out, make sure everything’s working correctly. For the smaller ones, normally we’re just calling and kind of walking our customers through. For the smaller ones, it’s like a plug and play system. So similar, like think of like Comcast when they ship you your modem, you just plug it in and then kind of walk through a general setup. That’s similar for us where we walk you through the whole general setup. And then we’re there through the whole process to make sure it’s all commissioned and ready to go. And then we give you access to that online.

portal so you can see all the usage and make sure everything’s flowing effectively and everything’s working right, which it should be work great. And then after that, we would then say, Hey, do you want to handle billing internally? Or do you want to handle billing with us? And then if we decided to set up billing for us, we would pair you with your specific utilities, billing specialists, you would then send us the city bill, we would then calculate all those rates and not the bills each one of the residents and then we just do that monthly to be able to make sure that process is as seamless as possible. And we try and make it as easy for you as

Like we want to be a partner for you in this, not just like someone that’s like where you’re ordering from Amazon, don’t ever talk to them. Like we’re very much hands on and make sure we’re helping you throughout the whole thing. Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. I assume you guys probably get better. I know when I moved into my house, I’m just thinking of the cable company and I remote them and I had to like call them like six, seven times to come over to help me fix it. Cause the internet would drop like every 30 minutes when we first moved into our house. And I imagine you guys provide a little bit better customer service. Yeah.

Trevor Oldham (11:43.15)
We joke about that where like, it’s like, Hey, we’re like this other, sub metering company. We actually pick up the phone. Like we, very much value the fact that like, you can just get ahold of us and be able to solve, any problems. So maybe that’s not a good comparison to be the internet company, but, definitely provide that good service to be able to walk through through that with you because ultimately even when we’re like hiring people, it’s like, no one knows about this sub metering industry. It’s such a small, like small niche, but it’s super, super helpful.

So we want to be the submetering nerds so you don’t have to be and don’t have to worry about all that stuff. So yeah. And curious when it comes to, let’s say someone is listening and you know they’re interested in working with you guys. How does that sort of the fees work? Is it like, you know, let’s say we saved hypothetically $300 ,000 on your water bill and we’re going to take a 10 % cut of that. Or is it more just almost like a consultant, you know, you’re coming in, you’re getting it set up and you’re charging. Again, just to throw in like a 5, 10K.

flat fee or maybe it depends on the size of the building because obviously I’d imagine it’s more work to set up a duplex than it would a hundred unit apartment complex. Just curious what someone and how that works like. Yeah, that’s a great question. Normally how it works is it’s definitely property by property like unit count, but there’s kind of separate things. So for hardware, that’s normally just a one time fee. It’s normally between, again, this is like really high level numbers, but it’s normally between 120 to 150 for the equipment per unit.

Somewhere around there for like if we’re talking like a 30 unit apartment complex. It’s normally somewhere around there and then So for the hardware, that’s just a one -time fee So you have access to that and then you can kind of get it all set up on that set of things We’ll definitely want to make sure that we’re walking through like installation costs So I’m just talking about equipment but for plumbers or electricians to come out We definitely want to talk about that and then on the billing side, that’s a monthly fee, but what’s really cool So let’s take that 30 unit 30 unit apartment complex in

almost every state, we can add what’s called a third party billing fee to the utility bill, which is normally between four and $5 that we can add. And so residents normally start cover the cost of our billing services through this process. And so we can just add that little third party billing fee. And that’s legal in most states, because they understand that like there’s an administrative cost to this. And so they try and help landlords to be able to.

Trevor Oldham (14:02.958)
Cover that cost and so when we add that to our third party billing fee that actually covers our monthly expenses for the residents So normally the residents are covering the cost for this It’s a really small fee and then that kind of goes from there for the smaller properties. We just have a monthly minimum that’s ranges between $100 to 150 depending on the size of the property and the residents some of the residents will cover some of the cost but then it’ll just be a little bit of out -of -pocket and basically that kind of

cost to benefit that you’re kind of running is like, how much time am I going to have to spend doing this versus having someone else to deal with, sending out those bills, doing the math, kind of mailing everything out, dealing with resident calls and trying to help you through that process. And so we want to make sure that we’re as helpful in that process as possible and make sure that everything’s in a good spot. So, yeah, it’s that’s phenomenal. And I like that third party billing fee. I think that just makes it easier. I mean, we’re talking.

five bucks, four bucks, you know, even 10 bucks. It’s relatively inexpensive. I know as a tenant, I would just, I don’t like it, but like whatever, it’s such a small fee. It’s not like, it’s like, I get more, I would get more mad when they increased around like 500 bucks a month like that. That’s where you would feel it, feel more. That’s nice that it’s just such a nominal fee and over time I can just, you know, I can get out onto the billing of the tenant. And I think of it too, like you mentioned, let’s say the hardware is like 150 bucks a unit. I mean, I would assume that the landlord is probably paying,

that much or more per, almost on like a monthly basis per year. I mean, I just think of like my house, I mean, our utilities, you know, depending on the month might be 300 bucks a month, you know, for gas, electric and, and water and different things like that. So I guess, yeah, normally, you know, it’s like, normally like what we’re seeing for the ROI, like what you’re like, that’s normally the question is, right? How long is it going to take for us to get our like money out of the system that we’re spending? And normally like the stuff that we’re seeing is it normally takes between eight months and a year to get your money back out because,

you’re not now covering the utility costs. You’re normally rents can’t be adjusted. So normally within a year, we have a calculator that as we’re walking through this process, we’d be happy to show whoever has questions about that. But yeah, within a year, normally the hardware is covered and the billing services obviously are covered in that monthly stuff. And so yeah, that’s a great, great thought. Cause that’s normally every like, you’re not just trying to buy this to just have this. It’s like, Hey, how was this going to do to be able to help my, the bottom line?

Trevor Oldham (16:24.174)
The way I think about it, it just makes so much sense for the property owners that are out there. Instead of you footing the bill and like you mentioned, the tenants, they’re probably using 20 to 30 % more of the water and they need to just because they’re not paying. Is it like, every scenario where it doesn’t make sense for someone to do it? Because in my mind, I feel like every property owner should have this, especially when they have the units. I know in my local area, most of them say the landlord is going to cover whatever the utilities. And I think to myself,

Like why are they doing that? You know, that’s just going to hurt into them. And especially your mom and pop landlords where maybe they only have, you know, 15, 20 units and maybe the cashflow is 200 bucks a month per unit, per door, where maybe now it could be 250, 300, gives them a little bit more legroom. I mean, you can think of like the big companies that are out there that are buying these $80 million apartment complexes, but even for like the smaller individual, it could really add up. But yeah, is there like ever a scenario where like a…

someone shouldn’t use it, I guess, because I mean, in my mind, I feel like everyone should use it. I don’t see like why no one is using it or why not everyone is using it. I should say. Yeah. I think some people, at least like this is why we’re on the podcast. Like we want to be able to get our story out there. Normally when people hear about it, they’re like, yeah, that makes complete sense. And then move forward with it. I think there’s a couple of scenarios where basically there’s, there’s kind of three different ways that you can cover your utility costs. The first one is sub metering. So like you kind of go through the hardware expense and you get it all the way in and go for it.

The second one is it still is hardware, but it’s called hot water allocation. So it’s really where you’re just measuring. So this would be for buildings, let’s say that were built a really long time ago and the it’s not an isolated water line that goes to each unit. It’s like, it’s springs off in a bunch of different areas. So like you, if you turn on your sink, it’s also like connected to the sink next door and it’s not as clear plumbing wise. So it costs a lot to kind of meter each individual appliance or inlet.

So in that scenario, we could put it on the hot water tank or and just measure the hot water side. And there’s a way to do this where basically it’s called hot water allocation, where we end up getting the percentage of how much each unit is using on their hot water side and then apply that to the cold water to be able to recover some of that. And it makes it a lot less expensive for insulation and doing that. So you kind of do it based off of a ratio. So that’s an option. And the third option is what we call it’s called rubs, which is ratio utility billing system.

Trevor Oldham (18:46.67)
where basically it’s kind of a step down from sub -meter and basically you just take the utility bill and then divide it out between each one of the residents by either square footage or how many people are living in there or like different metrics like that. And so even if you don’t want to necessarily go the hardware route, maybe you just want to go our billing services route, that is an alternative to be able to recover some of your utility costs. And there’s different laws that we’re familiar with in each area that either say, okay, you can do this, but you have to do it in a specific way, but we’d love to be able to help with that.

So those are kind of the three primary ways that would do it. And then for some of the smaller units, like you’re thinking quad or duplex, if they’re recovering it in some other way, like rubs or different ways, sometimes it doesn’t make sense. But most of the time, I think the main thing that we ask is like, how are you recovering those utility costs? Like if you’re not, that’s the main thing we’re worried about is like, okay, that’s a really big line item that you’re just kind of paying out of pocket for. And so…

I think even if you’re not going to go the full sub metering route, there’s ways to be able to recover that that we’d love to be able to figure out with people. That’s fantastic. And again, it just goes back to, I feel like it’s good to put it on the tenant. I think of myself like in New York and it gets pretty cold here in the winter, as I’m sure it does where you are as well. And I can just picture them like throwing up like the heat till like 85. Yeah, exactly. In the house during the winter and not caring about it. But…

Is this a product that’s available in all 50 states? Is there any territories you can’t access? Or is it just nationwide and you guys could help out any property owner anywhere within the country? Yeah, nationwide. We’d love to be able to chat with whoever. And we provide free estimates and you’d be able to talk to one of our sales team members just to kind of even answer just general questions. We’d love to be able to help with that. And so, yeah, nationwide, we’d love to be able to help. There’s not really any specific, there’s just like specific territories that like either…

just have different rules depending on where you are. And so that’s where we come into play. Like, again, you probably wouldn’t know this, but we would say, hey, in New Jersey, there’s a specific thing that you know about electricity that you just wouldn’t know. And so we’d love to be able to chat with you just to kind of help with anything that might come up there. And then we also have a lot of resources online, whether that be through our blog or we’re really active on YouTube of just like posting different things that are helpful for folks. And so we’re trying to be an industry leader of just like…

Trevor Oldham (21:05.966)
Okay, this is all the stuff you need to know. You need to know this, you need to know this and be able to help resource. Because we know that, again, we’re sub metering nerds, but that’s just an area where most people don’t have a ton of information on. And so we’d love to be able to partner with whoever needs help to be able to walk through it together. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And it’s great to hear. I mean, I don’t know if probably some quirky things that you probably come across. And I would imagine like New York’s definitely going to be different than Texas and exactly 100%. Exactly. But.

But curious, as you joined the company a few years back, how’s it been coming on as that sales manager role and coming to the company and really building up that team and continuing to grow the company from where you had started it? Yeah. So when I started, we had about nine team members and we were doing about, I think, 3 .5 million in sales. And now we’re about to hire our 22nd person at the company. So it’s been two and a half years and we’re aiming to do around 6 .5 million this year.

And so it’s been fun to be able to continue to grow and try and figure out ways to be able to make this better. And so one of the major focuses of last year was trying to get our marketing funnel really set up. And so we worked with a company called Allsmith. So allsmith .org. They’re really fantastic. And they’re like a fractional growth company. And they came in all last year and helped us kind of set up our marketing funnel and our flow and how we’re following up with different things. And they use, I’m sure your audience is familiar with this, but the pirate met.

metrics, like the R metrics. And so basically we will walk through that framework where basically weekly we were doing a growth meeting. We’re kind of talking through those different metrics, which is basically acquisition or awareness. Like, okay, how are people discovering our product and how are they deciding that? So we kind of set up a landing page and we’re trying to figure out, okay, we’re just going to, we’re sending all of our traffic to this one page. And we’re just iterating on that and trying to figure out what’s going to work best for conversion.

And then we moved to activation. So like, are these people taking the action we want from them? So are they filling out this form? Are they making the call? What are they doing for that? And then we focus on retention. So are we activating users and continue to engage with them? Like, okay, they accepted the proposal. Now what does it look like to get them on this billing side of things to be able to help them walk through that? And then we’re working through like referrals, like, okay, do they tell other people about this product? Like what happens there and how is that working? And ultimately the whole focus is like revenue. Like, are they willing to pay for this and be able to do that?

Trevor Oldham (23:25.998)
And so that’s been really helpful for us. And they rolled off in January, but kind of gave us the tools to be able to keep doing that and handle that internally. And so that’s been really helpful as we’ve been trying to grow is activating the primary source of channels that we use is Google ads. So like the intention, if you’re searching gas sub meter is pretty high that you’re looking for something really specific. So we’re focusing on specific keywords to make sure that people are finding us really quickly and able to get ahold of us in a really good manner. And that’s been really helpful to increase our lead generation.

and make sure that the funnel is focusing really helpfully. I think that’s where you’re going for that, but that’s kind of what we’ve been focused on recently. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, it’s pretty crazy what you can do with Google Ads. It’s almost like scary to a certain degree, like how much info, and even if you start to dive into Facebook Ads, it’s like, it’s kind of scary how much you can retarget people. And then you start to understand like, hey, like I go to a website now it’s bouncing around with me on the internet. And then you start to understand, like that’s why it’s happening. Yeah, that’s a great tool to…

to use, but I really enjoyed our interview today. And for our audience that is interested in working with you and working with Submitter Solutions, where should they go to? Yeah, great question. one thing I was going to add was we’re also working with your company, obviously, which has been really, really fun to like get on different podcasts and be able to start doing this. And we’re like, I think only six shows in or so, but it’s been really, really fun to be able to to market to our specific niche and literally doing what we’re doing here is just tell our story to the specific audience. So your team has been super helpful.

and walking through that. So I just want to throw that out there because that’s been really, really great for us. As far as our audience learning, your audience learning more, if you go to submetersolutions .com slash podcast, there’s a form that you can fill out and then we’d love to put together a free estimate for you. Again, even if you’re not entirely sure, like maybe this will work for me, maybe it won’t, we’d love to be able to talk because ultimately just more information is always helpful. And so even if it’s just like, here’s a proposal, this is what it would look like.

And then you kind of have that for down the road. We’d love to be able to talk to you about anything when it comes to water, gas or electric. And then even just doing the billing services side, we’d love to be able to work with you on that. So Submeter Solutions, it’s plural. Submetersolutions .com slash podcast. Awesome. I’ll make sure to include that in our show notes. And Trevor, thanks so much for coming on to the episode today. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you.






REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Ideas On What To Talk About On Your Podcast

On today’s episode, I’ll discuss how to generate ideas on what to talk about on your podcast.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 



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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:00.878)
I want to talk about what to talk about on your podcast and you can think about, okay, I want to go out there and I want to have a podcast, but what do I talk about? What content am I going to be wanting to share? So I think there’s a couple of different ways that you can go about this. One is having guest interviews. I find for my own podcast, having guests is super helpful. It makes the process a lot easier.

when just trying to figure out what to talk about on my podcast with by having these guests. So I’ll prep for the interview and maybe I’m bringing on a multifamily investor and talking about how do they get started in real estate? And then talking about where they’re investing, talk about the deals that they’ve done, successes, failures, different things like that. So I like to bring on guests for my podcast. I find that they really help carry the conversation. You can be conversational to a point.

Well, a lot of times I’m just asking questions and they’ll spend a couple of minutes just going over the answers and then based on what they say, I’ll have more questions or I want to make a comment about it for another minute or two. So I find having guests on my podcast is definitely helpful. I would say current events, something that you can do in your sector and something that I do is you can set up Google alerts for me. I have Google alerts out for real estate investing. So I see all the different.

Alerts about once a day of all the holotop stories within the real estate investing space. And if you’re in the oil and gas space, if you’re in a different alternative investment class, they’re totally a different business. I recommend setting up these Google alerts. They’re fairly easy to set up. You can also subscribe to industry leading news. So two things that I use are two subscriptions. I have one to the wall street journal. Obviously not a hundred percent about real estate, but does have relevant topics in there. And then I also subscribe to the real.

It’s called the real deal, which is more on your real estate aspect and to make sure both investing and then also for agents and brokerages and different things like that as well. But they have a lot of current events that I could pull from. Not that I do do that, but as an example, I would be able to pull content from those two avenues. The third one would be educational content and educational content is like this interview is this podcast. If you’re listening to it over this YouTube video, if you’re watching it.

Trevor Oldham (02:25.006)
And I’m just trying to provide content, trying to provide and be helpful. Obviously in this one, I’m talking about what to talk about on your podcast ideas, what to talk about on your podcast and just help you out. And this is just educational content. And what I do to help find content for me is I’ll use two tools. One, I believe it’s answer the public. So I’ll take it podcasting, podcast, guesting, see what people are typing, see what people are searching for. And I’ll look at the questions that people are asking. So like a question.

that had a lot of traffic volume that people were talking about was, what do I talk about on my podcast? So I figured why not record an episode of what to talk about on your podcast. So it was pretty helpful. Another tool I use is called SpyFu, S -P -Y -F -U, I believe is the name. And that can do a lot of PPC, if I could say it correct. If I get that out correctly. Yeah, PPC.

performance, SEO performance, just different things like that. And it’ll give you questions. I can type in podcast guesting. It’ll show me what people are searching for. Very comparative to answer the public. I believe it’s answer the public and not ask the public, but very comparative. And it just gives me tons of content for educational content for me to go out there and use to create episodes like you’re listening today. And then the next one would be behind the scenes. If you’re going out there and building a business, maybe you talk about.

You’re doing a recap of what’s working with you, what you’re doing, what books you’re reading, how you’re growing the business, what you’re seeing in the business, the challenges that you’re facing in the business. If you’re an investor talking about different deals that you have going on, deals that are successful deals that aren’t going as well as you would like deals that you have coming up on the horizon. I mean, there’s really any number of content and topics that you could talk about on your podcast. I find that what worked best for me was just getting started, putting together.

topics, just talking about those topics. And then over time, I became more efficient at the topics. I would get different ideas. I want to talk about that. I saw that story. And it just becomes the more practice you have in your podcast interviews, the better off you’re going to be. And the easier it’s going to become thinking about what to talk about on your podcast. But I hope that was very helpful. I know it’s short, hopefully you’re sweet. And then I hope everyone got some value out of today’s episode. I hope everyone has a good.

Trevor Oldham (04:49.326)
rest of the day and keep going and keep crushing it out there.




REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Achieving Financial Freedom As A Passive Investor with Jim Pfeifer

In today’s episode, Trevor Oldham and Jim Pfeifer discuss their experiences as passive real estate investors. They cover topics such as the different asset classes they have invested in, the importance of cash flow, the need for effective communication with sponsors, and the benefits of investing in a community like Left Field Investors (LFI). They also touch on the challenges faced by non-accredited investors and the value of learning from others’ experiences.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 


What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Passive investing allows for diversification across different asset classes, such as multi-family apartments, single-family rentals, Airbnbs, car washes, and even unique investments like life insurance policies.
    • Cash flow is a crucial consideration for passive investors, as it provides stability and de-risks investments. However, there can be a balance between cash flow and equity growth.
    • Effective communication with sponsors is essential for passive investors. Timely responses, transparency, and a dedicated investor relations team are indicators of a reliable sponsor.
    • Joining a community like Left Field Investors (LFI) can provide valuable education, support, and opportunities for collaboration with other passive investors.
    • Non-accredited investors face challenges in finding investment opportunities, but there are sponsors and communities that cater to their needs.
    • Reading and understanding the Private Placement Memorandum (PPM) is crucial for passive investors to assess the risks and terms of a deal.
    • Investing in a tribe or group can provide opportunities for diversification, shared due diligence, and a supportive learning environment.
    • Learning from others’ experiences and mistakes can help passive investors make informed decisions and avoid common pitfalls.
    • The growth of passive investing is driven by the desire for greater control over investments, better tax benefits, and higher returns compared to traditional investment options like 401(k)s and IRAs.

Connect with Jim:


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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:04.462)
Now you went from your portfolio where you were in single family, you’re into your multi -family and then now you went more of that passive investor. When you were becoming that passive investor and you were making those first investments, were you going into investing in multi -family apartments? Were you going through and investing with syndicators that had single family rentals or were there other asset classes? I mean, for me, when I started to discover passive investing, I was like, okay, I can invest in apartments. And then I realized, I could.

invest in single -family rentals than there’s Airbnbs and then car washes. I think you’ve had folks on your podcast where, I don’t know if you had them on your podcast, but I’ve heard through the Al -Fi where you invest like people’s life insurance policies where they have a million dollar policy and you know that you pay them $600 ,000 now and then when they die, unfortunately for them, but you get a nice payment on the back end and that’s unique investment. It’s no different than the commercials that you see.

on TV with the cash settlements and different things like that. But just curious what sort of asset classes you started investing in once you started to move your money over into passive. Yeah, that’s a good question. I wish I could say I had this grand plan. But really what happened was, you know, I think in my story, I kind of omitted one little section where I thought I wanted to be a syndicator. So I went to a conference. It was the first conference ever went to.

where I paid my own way. You know, I was used to working for a business where they would send you places. But so it was a big step for me. And I’m really glad I did it. And I went there thinking I’m going to be a syndicator. And about the first five minutes of the meeting or the conference, I realized, my gosh, I want to be what this other thing is, this passive thing, the passive investor, not a syndicator. And so what I did was I just assumed that everybody at this conference must be just the top line syndicators, right? Because why else would they be invited to this conference? Which

I’ve since learned anyone can go to a conference. So it’s really bad, assumption that I made, but I had a, you know, an old 401k rollover and, and so it felt like a little less risky to use that money because it wasn’t money I needed to live on. And so I just kind of went up and met a syndicator and said, Hey, can I give you my money? I wasn’t really paying attention to asset class. I didn’t have a strategy. I didn’t have an idea. I wasn’t vetting operators. I was terrible at it, all of it. so I got into some really weird asset classes to start. I.

Trevor Oldham (02:23.918)
I still own some of these deals. Like I’m in a coffee farm in Belize, a chocolate farm in Panama, or maybe those are reversed. But, you know, so weird stuff like that. I got into a mobile home park, which is something that I, you know, it was a really bad deal, but I liked the asset class. So I got into some really weird stuff at first. And then I kind of realized I wasn’t being effective, right? And I needed to find a better way to find deals and find operators.

But initially it was just, I mean, I’m, I like to chase the shiny object. That’s why, you know, when you’re part of our community, you know, that we have the life settlements that you talked about. We have all kinds of just everything you can think of, because there’s a lot of, you know, you want to diversify, but there’s a lot of different asset classes out there. And so I needed to rein that in and eventually I came up with a plan, but to start, it was just like, Hey, you, you have an, a syndication opportunity. Here’s my money. Bad idea.

Yeah, I definitely feel that. I think when I was first started investing and I try to do my due diligence, but then you get you got on their email list and then you get the emails from them. this property looks really cool. Maybe I want to invest in this asset class. Yes. I can invest in car washes. All that. That makes sense. That’s a super profitable niche. I can invest in any teams. I can invest. Like you mentioned, mobile home parks and all these different asset classes. Now, not today that you’ve had a little bit more time to to refine your strategy.

when you’re investing in these deals, are you looking more of a pure cashflow play? Like I know for me, like I invest with seven E where it’s just, it’s pure cashflow. You know, there’s, there’s no appreciation or anything like that. But then I’m in like a self storage deal where no cashflow for the first couple of years, pure appreciation. And for yourself, are you having a mixture of those two asset classes or those two types of investments where I sort of look at it as cashflow equity, or is it more of a mixture of both where you get that nice stable income? You know, again, is it.

like a 70 where you’re investing in mortgage notes or a triple net lease. And then obviously multifamily value add more. You know, you might get a three equity multiple over five years where right now am I tripling at least? I’ll probably just get comparative to the market, but at least I get that cashflow coming in where I can live off of it today. Yeah. So I am, I don’t have a W two income, right? So I need cashflow. So I invest for cashflow, but I recently had,

Trevor Oldham (04:43.822)
Russell Gray from the real estate guys on the podcast and he had a I’m not going to say it the way he said it because he’s he’s brilliant. But he basically said cash flow is equity. Right. So you want to have cash flow from all of your investments now. Clearly development, like you said, in your self -storage deal. That’s that’s different. And there there should be a part of your portfolio that is focused on, you know, kind of the riskier side and maybe the higher upside. But for me, I’m all about cash flow and.

It doesn’t have to be immediate cashflow, right? Everyone, people get upset. Well, cashflow starts in three months instead of two or six months. You know, I just want them to be cash flowing fairly quickly. Now the debt things that you were talking to talking about, I love those. Those are, especially now in this market, I think debt is a really smart place to be, but the downside is, well, the downside is there’s no upside, right? And there’s also no tax benefit there. So what I try to do is really effectively diversify. Now I have a strategy.

When I, when I have some capital that I want to allocate, I look at the rest of my portfolio, I look at my cashflow and I kind of say, okay, no, I, right now what I need is, is some extra cashflow. So then maybe I will do something like a debt, but if I have a feel like my cashflow is going pretty well, then maybe I’ll, I’ll try to find a multifamily or self storage or something that will cashflow within, you know, six months or so that’s a value add that you can start getting cash from pretty quickly. But.

My focus is cashflow because as Russell Gray says, that turns in to equity, right? Cashflow is equity. And, you know, I think what we’ve kind of come to think is a lot of the people in our community, if they have a W -2, then they’re just, they don’t even think about cashflow and all they want to do is development or appreciation or heavy value add. And I think they’re missing the boat. And the same point, you know, people like me who don’t have a W -2 just think all cashflow, all cashflow.

And I think what you want, you want to have a balance, but I think the balance has to be very much on the cashflow heavy side because cashflow de -risks the investment immediately. As soon as the cash starts rolling in, you know, your investment is de -risked where development, so many different things can go wrong. Heavy value add. So many different things can go wrong that even if you have a W -2, you should be focused on mainly cashflow and, you know, making up the numbers. But if someone had a W -2, maybe they do 70 % cashflow.

Trevor Oldham (07:05.23)
and 30 % other where somebody like me who relies on cashflow for our income, maybe I’m 85 or 90 % cashflow and 10 % the other stuff. But especially after talking to Russell Gray, I think that cashflow is equity and you want to be heavy, heavy on the cashflow. Yeah, I can’t, I can’t agree more with that. And that’s really how I feel right now. It was almost like in the beginning, I was just investing. Just, I just wanted to see the different asset classes and the deals. And then I started to realize, I like this cashflow coming in, like the self storage development deal.

where I’ve been in it probably about a year and a half now coming up and then I won’t get that first distribution until January 25. So I’m kind of bummed out. Now I know what I know now I probably should have looked into it deeper, but at least basically looking at the pro forma and talking to the sponsors, at least I should be able to get my return of principal back by year three. So like, okay, at least I get that aspect of it. Maybe I would have liked it a little bit sooner, but I definitely think that’s an important part. And I think too many people…

don’t really go into it with a strategy. They sort of just talk to different sponsors and they invest sort of like how I was in the beginning, similar how you were where I just in this deal. I mean, I think it’s going to be a success, but knowing what I know now, I can’t pull my money out. Obviously it’s a liquid I can’t put into a cash -filling asset. But talking about these different asset classes, are there any ones that you’re staying away from? I know for me, like, I just don’t know anything about the oil and gas space. I’m just, I just get too scared. I’ve heard of too many bad things.

happened I think I was talking to Steve, one of the co -founders at LFI. I actually got to meet him in Boston a couple years back and he was talking about he had a really bad experience in oil and gas deal and I don’t know if that spooked me. I remember looking at them too much deeper but curious and not to say that isn’t an area where you can invest in but are there any certain asset classes that you’re staying away from? Is it maybe multifamily just given what we’ve seen? I mean I’m sure there’s still deals to be had but just curious on your end or if you’re still just you know being extra due diligent.

you’re looking at these deals that are out there. Yeah, I don’t necessarily have any asset classes that I avoid other than I agree with you. Oil and gas. I think you have to be really, really careful. And, you know, even even some really smart people who went and visited the locations and thought they had everything nailed down in there and they find out it’s a Ponzi scheme. I think you need to be really, really careful with that and, you know, restrict the amount of capital you put in that. And I think a lot of people get

Trevor Oldham (09:27.022)
I’m excited about it because the tax benefits, especially if you have a W -2. So certainly that that’s where it worked in my favor. I didn’t have a W -2, so I didn’t think I needed to take that extra risk. That’s one that I would be super cautious about. But as far as other asset classes, I can’t think of any that I’m just an automatic no when they come across my desk. But as you said, yes, I’m doing a lot more due diligence than than I did previously. And, you know, it’s kind of one of those things where you know when you see it. And I think it’s more.

having faith in the operator than, than the asset class. And there’s some asset classes where we’ve made investments that haven’t worked out. And that doesn’t mean I’ll never do that asset class again. It just means that I need to dig into and understand it more. And, you know, sometimes you have a trusted operator who might be a calculator that gets into a bunch of different asset classes. That doesn’t mean you have to jump in and get in all of them with that person. Right. You can, you can say, no, I’m going to pass on this one. But I think the key is finding operators that you.

that you know, like, and trust that have experience that have a track record. And, you know, I think now the thing I’m really trying to do is I’m going to put small amounts of capital with a lot of different people. And the only time I’m going to put a larger amount of capital is if it’s somebody that I’ve already invested with and I’ve had success and they’ve been around through multiple up and down markets. Right. So I’m talking, they probably have been doing this since before 2008.

Right. That is the kind of person that I want. Then I’ll put a little bit more and I’ll be able to take a bigger swing. But I think two years from now, it’s going to be a lot easier to vet an operator and select deals because the operators that make it through, especially multifamily, but really any asset class, the operators that make it through what we’re going through right now, this huge interest rate spike with the, the, the quickness that that happened. If they make it through this, then that

that tells you something, right? So it’s not going to be like, okay, now I can invest with anybody who made it through, but that will be a qualifier. There’ll be a lot less people to invest with. And you can say, okay, you, you made it through this. How did you do it? What, what did you do differently? What did you learn? Even if they had some deals that had capital calls or, or lost money that that’s okay. That’s happens. It’s investing. It’s not winning, right? They don’t call it making money all the time. It’s investing. And that means there’s some risk and you’re going to lose some money. But did that operator learn something? Did they?

Trevor Oldham (11:53.294)
Did they, were they able to fix their errors and how did they handle it with investors? So I just think there’s going to be so much more information because as you said, anybody could make money, you know, the last eight years, right? I did a terrible job as an asset manager and I made a bunch of money on those properties, none of it from cashflow, almost all of it from appreciation. And it was just fortunate. I got lucky with the timing, but.

you know, had that happened over these past few years, I would have taken a beating and I’d probably be done with real estate right now because I would have lost so much money. So I think that better times are coming for the results, but also I think it’s going to be a lot easier to be a passive investor because we’ve learned a lot of lessons and also the operators will have to, and you can ask them, Hey, what lessons have you learned? And if they don’t have any lessons that they’ve learned, that’s a huge red flag right there. Yeah. I think there’s so much value, valuable information there. I think one thing.

I wanted to mention that I thought it was great was not putting too much of your capital in one sponsor. And I’ve just seen different folks where they put maybe 50 % of their other investable cash into one sponsor. And then maybe that sponsor doesn’t work out or they put it into one specific deal. I know for me personally, I try to put no more than 10 % of my money into any one sponsor. Unless like, it’s like, I know I talked about 70, I invested with them October 22, consistent distributions, no problems with them. So I doubled my investment with them this past February because I’ve

proven that track record to me. And there’s a triple net lease folk that I’ve invested with. Same thing. I think I got in with them. I think it was an October 22, great track record. Like what they do. I feel comfortable with them. Now I’m ready to maybe make another investment with them. So I like that aspect of it, just in so someone doesn’t get burned, putting all their money into one sort of syndicator in case that happens, unless they, you know, they do have proven results. And like you mentioned, even if it is a successful syndicator, sometimes the deal doesn’t work out. Maybe just something that happens. Like you mentioned,

where all of a sudden everyone’s getting variable rates and then the interest rates spike. And then now they go to get those fixed rates and the numbers don’t make sense. And I think it’s a good point where in the future there’s going to be, we’re going to really see the good sponsors that came out of us and these good syndicators and the ones that didn’t over leverage themselves, the ones that were more conservative. And I like to think of, I’m not sure if you had them on your podcast, but I think it was like Joel Friedland from Brit Properties where you know, super conservative.

Trevor Oldham (14:11.598)
you know, where some of those properties, you know, 0 % LTV, all cash on commercial properties where sometimes you may go up to 30 % LTV, not saying the multifamily folks have to go that, you know, that smaller, but are they being a little more conservative, you know, maybe 60 % LTV, more fixed rate, you know, maybe not projecting as great returns, you know, taking a little skin off that, but, you know, being able to survive the space. But with all that said, just curious, when you’re…

talking to these new sponsors, before you say you even invest with them, are there certain red flags they look out for? I know for me, when I’m talking to a sponsor, I’m just having that very first phone call. One, maybe if they show up late to the call, if they promise certain things to me that just sound unrealistic, like I had a sponsor promise me Christmas bonuses for all of his sponsors. And I’m like, I’m not your employee. And that’s not what I really care about. Yeah, that sounds great. And depending on the asset class, projecting unreasonable IRR.

And this is before I even dive into the numbers. Are there any things on the surface level where you’re just talking to a sponsor and you’re like, Hey, you know, I just don’t feel comfortable with this person just based on what they’re talking about. Cause I find, I know I find in the first five minutes of talking to a sponsor, I’m like, yeah, I’ll dig deeper into their numbers, but just to try to get a read on them. Because I mean, there’s so many different sponsors and, and operators out there. I mean, I could be talking to eight to 10 of them a day and not get through all the ones that are out there. So just curious how you vet them. And if there’s certain red flags that you look for when you’re talking to them.

Yeah, so I mean, the one thing is I really don’t invest with the sponsors anymore unless they’re introduced to me by somebody I know I can trust from my community who’s already invested with them. That’s like step one. Now, if it’s a new operator that nobody knows, it’ll take me just a long time to get comfortable. But really, the main thing I’m looking for is communication, because these are long term illiquid investments, right? They’re out of your control. You can’t.

you know, go back and say, Hey, I’d like my money back. It just, it’s not possible. So it’s so out of your control. So I want to know that if I’m going to send you an email, make a phone call, write you a letter, whatever that you’re going to respond in a timely fashion. And if you don’t, I’m, I’m not going to invest. And I, I work very hard to find that out before I make the investment. So like you said, are they going to show up on time to a phone call? Because that means they value my time as much as, as their time, right?

Trevor Oldham (16:35.182)
So that’s an important first step. But then, you know, I’ll send them a ton of follow -up emails. Even if I don’t have questions, I’ll make something up just to see, are they going to get tired of me hassling them? I might ask the same question twice or I’ll dig into the bottom of their website and find something obscure to ask them about. And, you know, the ones I like are the ones that say, man, you got some great questions. Can we get on a phone call and talk about this? And, you know, what I want to see is…

two things, the quality of response and the timeliness of response. If it takes you a few days to get back to me and you don’t have a reason why, then I’m moving on. There are so many sponsors out there. There’s great sponsors out there. I don’t need to chase them down. I want to have someone who values my time or at least has systems in place so that they can handle it. I understand these are busy people. I might not always get to talk to the principal, but I want to at least have the investor relations person. I mean,

Relations investor relations. That’s their entire job. If they can’t get back to me within 24 hours, then there’s a problem. I mean, you know, if weekday workday kind of stuff, I’m not saying I’m sending something on a Friday night at midnight and expect something back, but I cannot overestimate the, or overstress the, the, the importance of communication because now people are finding this out, right? There’s a particular sponsor in our, in our community that, you know, everyone was very high on.

a few years ago and put a lot of money into them. And he was just bad at communication. So bad that, you know, I, we had conversations with them and said, look, you need to improve or we’re, we’re not going to be, want to be involved with you anymore. And he ended up finally hiring an investor relations person. That person was also terrible at communication. And, but we still thought the deals were good. And so some, you know, we still invested, which, you know, looking back, we shouldn’t have. And now some of those deals are not working out. Some are.

but some aren’t, but the communication has gotten worse and worse. So now if a deal is going bad and you can’t get any information on it, I mean, that’s just, there’s no excuse for that. And you don’t want to be in that situation because already, like if I’m in a deal and I think I’m going to lose money or there might be a capital call, I’m already getting stressed out. I’m already upset. But if you’re communicating with me every step of the way and saying, here’s exactly what happened. Here’s what we’re trying to do.

Trevor Oldham (18:55.854)
You know, we’re doing our best. We understand you might lose money on this. We’re being transparent. That’s an operator. Why might invest with again? Because it might, it might be as long as it’s something that wasn’t operational and they didn’t, you know, wasn’t their fault. If it’s interest rates spiked and it was a risky business plan, like flipping apartments. And I knew it ahead of time. Okay. That, that risk, I took it. It didn’t work out. Okay. But you, you walked me through every step of the way I might consider investing with you again. But if it’s somebody who just.

never responds and says, we need a capital call. And they say, it’s mandatory. When the, when the PPM says it’s not or things like that. I mean, you got to find all that out ahead of time. So I think part of the thing is people think they’re being a burden asking all these questions or, you know, bothering the operator, you’re going to give them 25 or $50 ,000. You, you earn the right to ask as many questions as you want. And when they stop answering them,

That’s when you go find someone who will answer your question. So all I do is vet that all the vetting is just communication based or not all of it, but most of it is just making sure that they’re going to communicate with me because that is super important to me. Yeah. I can’t agree with you more there. And that’s how I feel where I’ll talk to a sponsor and if I like the conversation and I’ll go into the next step, I’ll have them send me a deal and then I’ll start asking the questions about the deal. And sometimes they’ll get back and like, again, like you’re like, I don’t need them to get back to me. Like, and.

if I’m setting it out on a Friday night, but hey, can you get back to me within three business days? You know, maybe five is pushing it. If I send it to you on a Monday, can you at least get it back to me by the middle of the weekend? And like you mentioned, I’ve had sponsors where I keep asking them questions or I’m like, why does, you know, I’m running, I’m underwriting the project myself and I’m not, I’m, I think you’re overinflating where you’re going to be paying for the property. Can you explain to me why you think this is the justified purchase prices, different things like that? And then you never get an email back from them. And like, well, that saved me.

my money, because like you mentioned, if I’m putting 25, 50K into your deal, and you can’t even respond to me in a timely manner now, what’s going to happen once I do invest that money with you? And now it’s almost like you make the sale, there’s no obligation for them to really communicate with me anymore. You know, you hope that you do, that’s why you vet these sponsors, but it is that little terrifying spot. Especially I think for those newer investors. I know for me, like when I was wiring over that first 25K to get into the deal, it was…

Trevor Oldham (21:14.862)
nerve -racking, you know, is the money going to the right spot? Is this is the sponsor going to do what they say they’re going to do? And luckily it’s all worked out. But like you mentioned, it’s funny because we’re passive investors, but there’s so much active part of it where, yeah, obviously we’re not managing the property, but we still got to vet the sponsor. We got to vet the deal. We got to make sure that, you know, we’re not just blindly giving our money away to someone just because, you know, they sound good. They’re slick talking salesmen on the phone call. So I really liked that. And like you mentioned also the PPM.

I think that’s a very important document to go through and read. And I think for me, it was eye opening. And I’ve seen through the LFI group where folks haven’t gone through and read it and all of a sudden there’s a capital call and it might be a mandatory capital call or their shares are going to get diluted. Sometimes even down to zero, not even down to like 80 or 60%. So that was eye opening for me was to go through and read it. And I wish I think of like Jeremy Roller, he can go through and I think he has the power now, how successful he is to have them rewrite the PPM.

or a little bit better for him. I don’t know if I could do that as a single investor, but it is interesting to go through and be like, like if something goes wrong in this deal and there’s a capital call, either I participate in it or I lose all my money. Is that something that I’m going to want to do where I don’t have any control over that? So I think you mentioned, you know, even though it might be 50 pages and it’s a slog to get through, you know, if you’re investing so much of your money, you kind of have to go through it. And that’s your part of the job being a passive investor is to go through those documents and.

and to check them out. So I think that’s really, really all helpful information. And I want to talk about, and it’s been great being a part of LFI. I found a tribe through LFI. So we’re all non -accredited investors. We each put like 4K into a deal and you know, the minimum was 50K. So it was great to diversify and get into a new sponsor where I might have not been able to get into on my own or maybe would have to save up for a year or two to invest with that sponsor. But just curious on year end.

Do you prefer investing together as a tribe? Do you prefer to just get into deals on your own or maybe just a mixture of both just because when you’re getting into it as a tribe, sometimes the minimum, it might be 5K or 10K versus your standard 25, 50, and then even 100K. Just curious how your investment works through that one. Again, whether you prefer going through a tribe or whether you’d prefer going just solo into the deal on your own or just, again, that mixture of both of them. Yeah, I think it really depends. We started a tribe from a few LFI people.

Trevor Oldham (23:35.598)
And it’s kind of a test tribe, right? So none of us have invested in car washes before. So none of us wanted to put in 25 or 50 grand into a car wash. So we said, why don’t we start this tribe and we’ll do, invest in new operators, new asset classes to us, and just anything kind of out of the ordinary that maybe you’re okay taking a fly on and putting five grand in, but you didn’t want to put 50 in. And so that’s a perfect use case for a tribe. Another great use case for a tribe.

is, you know, I have a tribe where there’s five people who are really into passive investing. And so what we do is it’s like a little mini mastermind, right? We allocate capital that tribe and then we all talk about it. And when you learn so much, because if you bring a deal to the tribe, you now are the person that has to defend that. And so they’re asking you the questions. And so then you go and ask the operator and bring back. And so you learn so much more. So I think especially when you’re starting out,

I think tribes are just a great way to learn and grow and find, you know, some other people that you can talk to because this is, it’s a difficult thing. This is why left field investors exists is to, to give people a place to go, to be able to learn and learn from others mistakes, right? You were talking earlier about experience and you know, there’s you, you can’t do any of this without experience. And there’s two different kinds of experience. There’s, there’s the experience you have.

And there’s the experience you can get from others, right? Steve Su just wrote a great book. You know, the avoiding whatever avoiding rookie errors is a left field investor, right? That whole book is a list of 20 errors mistakes that Steve made in his 14 year investing career. Well, if you read a book like that, then you know, you don’t have to make those mistakes that Steve did. And you know, a lot of those mistakes, I made the same ones. And Steve was one of the first people I met who was a passive investor like me.

And we both learned a ton from each other and saved each other probably tens of thousands of dollars by now. And that’s the value of community. So when I look at a tribe, that’s what I’m getting out of it. Also for things that I’m new to, you know, lower minimum, that’s nice. But, you know, I’m to the point now where, you know, it doesn’t move the needle to invest $5 ,000 in one particular deal, but is it someone starting out or someone younger? Absolutely. That’s, that’s the purpose of those tribes. The reason I still get in tribes.

Trevor Oldham (26:03.118)
is maybe I want to be in a bunch of deals from an operator and I, but I want to de -risk it a little bit. Or like I said, I want my own mini mastermind. So I do both. you know, I, I really think there is a place for try best in, in anyone, in anyone’s portfolio to, to invest in groups. I think you get so much out of it, but now, you know, I also do, probably most of my investing is, is on my own. Yeah. I think that’s, that’s super helpful. Like you mentioned for the newer investor, like, like,

For myself, I found it super beneficial where having the folks where it was me and like, I think we might’ve slumped down a little bit over the time. I think it started off as like 13 and then we started to get down. Maybe there was like seven or eight of us guys, but I would bring a deal to the table one week and we would review it and then maybe bring the sponsor on to talk about it. And we did this for about, well, about six to nine months before we pulled the trigger and got into a deal. But just that learning experience where I think of the deal one way and I don’t like it. And then another guy, he does like it and this is why he likes it. And then.

We can argue, but we can go back and forth on each other’s opinion. But it’s more of a learning opportunity more than anything else. And then you also mentioned the LFI community. I mean, that was instrumental for me for coming through and just poring over the forums and learning about all the different sponsors and operators. And I find it’s very beneficial when I come to the forum. And let’s say I do want to invest with the new sponsor. Maybe I heard them on a podcast and they sounded very interesting and I want to know, hey, has anyone invested with them? More often than not, someone in the LFI community either one.

has invested with them or if they had no one’s invested with them, someone else has spoken to them and they’ll give their opinion. Yes, this is why I like them. Or I think there was one, there was one recently where I had never heard of them before. And some, someone in the group, they did a ton of due diligence on the group, you know, and they laid it all out there and it’s like, well, that just saves me so much time on my end of having to go through and do this all due diligence. Cause he was going through and he pulled all the numbers. So I think that community is super helpful. But just speaking of LFI, did you guys ever expect it to be?

as successful as it is to grow as much as it is. Cause I feel like, you know, like you mentioned, I left field investing. The majority of folks today still think 401k IRAs. And I think it’s now finally starting to catch on that there are different asset classes that you can invest. I know for me, I always, always just put my money in index fund. I’ll retire at 60, whatever 59 and a half where I can access my money. Like, well, that’s a long time for now. I don’t want to be waiting. I don’t want to be waiting that far. So just curious how it’s been growing the group and how.

Trevor Oldham (28:29.71)
Your experience has been just seeing it flourish from, you know, when you guys first started it. Yeah. Well, it was not intentional to grow it like this. In fact, I spent the first year telling people, no, they couldn’t join. We started, it was going to be 12 person dinner club in Columbus where I live. And the first meeting was going to be March 18th, 2020, which is when Ohio, you know, shut down for the pandemic. So we had to go online and that allowed some of my former financial advising clients to jump on some calls.

there are people from out of town that could jump on some calls. And we also were able to get some pretty big operators like Brian Burke was one of our first guests, because he was sitting around with nothing to do, just like we all were during those months. But what I wanted was a little mastermind for myself. I was very selfish. I wanted 12 people. Then, OK, fine. We had 20. And at the end of 2020, nine months in, I think we had 50 people. And that’s because I’d probably turned away twice as many people that wanted to join, because I just wanted it to be a small community.

But about that time, we realized what you just said. There are so many people now that are learning about this and interested in, and just really want to understand how to become a passive investor in real estate syndications. It’s really difficult because as you said, it’s 401k is easy stock market. Everyone does it. You just, you know, put your money in index funds. You don’t have to learn anything. You don’t have to know anything. And it’s not scary because everyone does it. The, you know, tax treatments, terrible. The returns aren’t that great.

But there’s nothing scary about it. But you mentioned earlier sending a wire. That’s terrifying. Right. Most people only do that when they buy a house. So sending one for your investments, that’s really scary. And a lot of these investments are hidden. Right. The SEC doesn’t even allow you to advertise them, especially for non -accredited. So there’s all kinds of rules and regulations for this type of investing. So it’s scary. It’s difficult, hard to find investments, but the tax treatment is phenomenal. The returns are great. You make a whole lot more money. You pay a whole lot less tax. So.

when we finally realized that that people really want to do this, but they need help. And so at left field investors, there’s other communities too. But we became a community and we decided, yeah, you know what we want to try to grow because our passion is showing people that you can do this, right? You don’t have to, if you want to get into real estate, you don’t have to be active and go do a house hack or flip a house or do all this other stuff that, you know, people are doing when they think of real estate, you can actually be a W2 worker who does.

Trevor Oldham (30:54.766)
on the side. And as you said, it’s called passive investing, but it’s extremely active until you send that wire, right? Then it becomes very passive. But the education is the key. And that’s why we started the community selfishly for ourselves. And then we realized, hey, we can expand this and share it. And that’s why we’re so excited about the culture that our community is built. You know, we don’t take responsibility for the for the culture. But that’s the that is the most that’s the best thing about left field investors is is people like you that can go on and and

and share what you’ve learned in the forum and then learn something from others. And that is the key to this type of investing, I think, until it becomes something as natural as putting money into your 401k. People are going to need communities like this to be able to understand how to do this. And that’s what we’re passionate about at Left Field Investors. Yeah, I think that’s that’s phenomenal. And not to get too far off on tangent, but thinking of like you have your 401k and then I like you start to learn about like you can invest through like a self -directed IRA and then you have your solo 401k.

That never gets talked about in school. It’s always just, obviously when you’re working a W -2 job, you can’t get your solo 401k, but maybe you have an IRA and you can roll it over and it’s self -directed. But that’s not like taught that’s out there. And it’s because, you know, if you’re a fidelity, if you’re a Vanguard, you know, and you can’t invest in real estate other than if you’re going through like REITs through their platform, you know, why would you want to promote that? Or why would you even talk about it? Because it doesn’t make sense because you’re not going to make any money on it at the end of the day. And I thought it was funny you mentioned the…

being non -accredited definitely has its challenges trying to find those 506B deals because you can’t get advertised to and I’m always having to go out there and find sponsors. I can’t tell you how many things, how many asset classes I want to invest in and I can’t. You know, just being a non -accredited sort of has that extra challenge. But I mean, for those listening that are non -accredited, it’s definitely possible. There are sponsors out there that are available to non -accredited. And I think even through L5, there’s a whole forum dedicated to non -accredited sponsors. And I think there’s maybe like 50 or so, there’s a ton of them.

in there. So there’s definitely the ones that are out there. But Jim, I want to be respectful of our time and for our audience out there that wants to learn more about yourself or more about LFI, where should they go to? Yeah, you can go to our website, leftfieldinvestors .com. You know, you can join now. We have a just now we started a free trial so you can kind of jump into the community, I think at seven or 10 days to test it out, see if you like it, see if it’s for you. And then then you can you can join the community.

Trevor Oldham (33:18.382)
You can also reach out to me. My email address is jim and leftfield investors .com. You know, I love talking to investors and sharing what I know. And, you know, I’m probably the luckiest person in the group because I talked to so many people I learned from every single person, whether they’re brand new and ask the question that hasn’t been asked yet that they think is a stupid question. And I think, my gosh, no one’s ever asked that. That’s brilliant. You know, to talk to super experienced people. So I love connecting with people and, and talking about our community and how you can really,

you know, achieve financial freedom through, through passive investing. I’ll make sure to include that in the show and so today’s episode and Jim, again, thank you so much for coming on to the show today. Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.






REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

How to find Guests for your Podcast

In this episode, Trevor Oldham shares his strategies for finding unique and high-quality guests for your podcast. He suggests networking groups, conferences, and online communities as great sources for potential guests. Trevor also recommends reaching out to authors of new or upcoming books on Amazon and exploring other podcasts for guest ideas. The key is to find guests who haven’t been overexposed on multiple podcasts and offer fresh perspectives.

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Watch The Episode Here 



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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:01.102)
In today’s episode, I want to talk to you about how to find guests for your podcast. So there’s a couple of different ways that you can do it and something that I’ve used as a podcast host myself when I’m trying to find guests and I’m trying to find unique quality guests that maybe haven’t been recycled on so many different podcasts. And it’s kind of counterintuitive to running a podcast booking.

company where we’re working with clients to get them booked on 20 interviews at a time or 30, 40 interviews where sometimes we’re just trying to find a unique guest that not too many people have heard of. And this isn’t to say that this is the case with every guest that I have on my podcast, but here are some ways that you can do it. One would be networking groups. And I found quite a few guests for my podcast from these different networking groups that I attended.

I use conferences as well. So whether you’re, if you’re going to real estate conferences, whatever it may be, I found that was also beneficial when it came to finding podcast guests and just meeting folks and being like, Hey, you want to come on my podcast? Or I’m a big networking, no worker on LinkedIn. And I find a lot of people as good content. So I’ll be like, Hey, love the content. Want to come on my podcast. Worst thing they can say is no, or be unresponsive at the end of the day. So.

I’ll ask anyone to be a guest on my podcast. If I like what they have to say, if I like their content, I would say like join like groups. Like I’m a part of the left field investor community and that’s mainly for passive investors and just be like, like that guy’s an interesting story. Let me reach out to him and invite him on the podcast. Or yeah, I want to have that person on my podcast. So that’s a couple of different ways that you can do that. You can tap into your network. Be like,

I want to have X, Y, and Z on my podcast. And it’s just taking the time to sit down and thinking about who you want to have on your podcast and just making the time for it. When I had first started my podcast back in the day, I remember talking about it a few times now, but I made a list of 50 podcast guests I wanted to have on my podcast. And it was everywhere from Elon Musk to Jesse Itzler to

Trevor Oldham (02:19.246)
You name it, probably had very successful entrepreneurs out there. And I got one guest booked out of the 50, it was Mike Dillard, very successful online entrepreneur. If you listen to one of my other podcasts, interviews or watching this on YouTube, I forgot to hit the record button when I was interviewing Mike. So that, that kind of sucked back then, but.

Nonetheless, I started off like that. I built out a list. I used to just use a Google sheet, go through, okay, I want to have these pokes on my podcast. I reached out, they booked the interview, never heard from them. Maybe I contact them through their social media channels, whatever it may be and how you want to go through it. Whether again, networking groups, conferences, communities, masterminds, whatever you may be in. I would start there for finding guests for your podcast. And once you go through that, the next area would be going through Amazon.

And what I mean by Amazon is sometimes I can find authors who have a book coming out within a new release, maybe the next 90 days, maybe their book just came out in the last 30 days. And I’m trying to find someone that, you know, they’re going to want to talk about their book. They’re going to want publicity about their book, but maybe they haven’t been heard of by too many people. So for those listening, I’ll walk you through it. So I’ll go to like Amazon. Let me see. Like I’m searching for,

Let me see if I’m searching for like real estate investing books.

Trevor Oldham (03:48.782)
real estate investing books. So that’s going to pop up and I’m going to come over here on the left side of Amazon. So you type in real estate investing books for those listening, come over on the left side of Amazon. You can see books where it says new releases last 30 days, last 90 days coming soon. So let me say, let me just do coming soon. So now you can see all these books that are going to be released soon. So you can see there’s a book more by Mark Lane.

more leads, more deals, more profits, the inside secrets of real estate millionaires. That one sounds kind of interesting. Maybe I want to have Mark on my podcast. Now there’s these different podcasts book out there, escaping the housing trap, the strong towns response to the housing crisis. That sounds pretty interesting. Maybe I want to have him on my show. Now there’s this book bringing Adam Smith into the American home, a case against home ownership. Well, that sounds like an interesting topic.

Let me click on the author. Let me get more information about them and let me reach out to them. Obviously you can see some of these have reviews, so they probably already come out. So it’s not a full proof process, but you can see like tap your assets. How to achieve financial freedom two years with just one rental home. That’s definitely interesting. So there’s all these different books out there that you can use and search through Amazon to try to find different quality authors that maybe people haven’t had.

on their podcast before. And then the last recommendation I would be would just be to look at other podcasts and you can go on like a tool like Raphonic, you go on iTunes. And obviously if you search like real estate investing podcast, there’s numerous of the ones out there. You can just go through, see the different guests. yeah. I want to talk about that topic. Let me reach out to that individual. Maybe I want to bring out someone talking about precious metals. Maybe I want to talk about someone, you know, gold, silver, all that guys.

the individuals and expert in it. Let me reach out to him. I find that gives me some ideas as well, but it goes back to my first point where I don’t want to have someone that is recycled all the time on my podcast. I try to find some new and fresh and unique guests where again, if someone’s been on though, 20, 30, 40, 50 episodes, they make for a really good quality guests. They know what to expect versus someone that’s been only on a handful of shows. I’ve never been on interview, but it’s that ebb and flow. It’s trying to find that happy medium.

Trevor Oldham (06:15.119)
between folks that have been a guest on shows and have not been on too many shows, but just enough shows or have a good quality saying. So it’s kind of up in the air, but really what works best for you and what you’re looking to do is what I would stick to. But I hope that was helpful on how to find guests for your podcast. And that way you never run out of good quality guests that you have for your show. And until next time, I hope everyone has a great rest of the day.




REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Investing In Single Family Rentals with Andrew Kim

In today’s episode, Andrew Kim, an entrepreneur in the technology space and founder of Share, discusses his journey in real estate investing and how his company helps everyday investors find low-risk, low-effort real estate investment opportunities. He explains why Share focuses on single-family rentals, highlighting their resilience and safety as an asset class. Andrew also discusses the process of finding properties, financing options, and the role of Share as an asset management company. He emphasizes the importance of diversification and the benefits of investing in real estate for W2 professionals.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 

What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Single-family rentals are a resilient and safe asset class for real estate investors.
    • Share helps everyday investors find low-risk, low-effort real estate investment opportunities.
    • The company focuses on single-family rentals because they provide control and require less capital and partnership compared to multifamily properties.
    • Share uses cap rates to estimate returns for different properties, and the range varies based on the price point and location.
    • The company outsources property management to large institutional companies, providing quality service and cost savings to clients.
    • Investing in single-family rentals can help W2 professionals diversify their portfolios and offset personal income through tax benefits.

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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:02.012)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the REI Marketing Secrets podcast. Today on the show we have Andrew Kim. Andrew, for our audience out there who is just learning about yourself for the very first time, do you mind just going into your background a little bit?

Andrew Kim (00:15.758)
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, professionally, I’m an entrepreneur in the technology space, but got into real estate investing back in 2010, was introduced to the Florida market first, and then, you know, was a very, very passive, but not the greatest investor for her since then. Focused mainly on my tech career was living out in California, building a technology company, you know, fast forward 10 plus years when it’s like, okay, well, time to

you know, think about retirement and the end game, circling back to real estate, realizing that it’s still not the easiest way to, you know, easiest place to deploy capital and find and stabilize rental homes. And then thus spawned Share, my current venture where real estate meets technology. And what we’re building is trying to help everyday investors find low risk, low effort, real estate investment opportunities.

Trevor Oldham (01:11.227)
So I’m curious how you got from California to where you are now in Toronto. Because I know you’re talking about how, you know, I’m in New York, I don’t really enjoy the cold, you don’t really enjoy the cold unless you are in Northern California. Just curious, you know, how that transition happened.

Andrew Kim (01:20.238)

Andrew Kim (01:25.198)
Yeah, so, you know, I was born and raised in Toronto, Canada, and then being a tech entrepreneur, you know, I think the natural progression is get to the US and back in 2011, I moved to California because I was building a technology company and we took a lot of investment dollars from a lot of venture capital firms out in California. So I moved there, spent about four to five years out there, built and sold my company.

And then little did I know that my visa was dependent upon having that company active. So after I sold it, I unexpectedly and reluctantly came back to Toronto. But I learned about the US real estate market there and that’s kind of stuck with me ever since.

Trevor Oldham (01:59.739)

Trevor Oldham (02:11.483)
Yeah, that’s I kind of think so. You know, having that having that happen. I know California is a it’s a pretty sweet spot, especially Southern California. It’s a it’s a it’s a nice area. But I’m just curious when it comes to like you and your company, why did you guys choose, you know, say the single family rentals over say your multifamily? You know, I feel like multifamily sort of that hot button where people I feel like when people come across it, they say, oh, why buy one?

Andrew Kim (02:20.014)

Trevor Oldham (02:39.291)
house when I can buy you know four units and I can scale quicker you know that’s always I find the conversation where you know where people interject it’s like oh I’d rather own you know 10 houses 10 units instead of 10 single -family units just curious what drew you to the single -family space as compared to say the multifamily space.

Andrew Kim (02:56.494)
Yeah, so, you know, we, a lot of things change, I think, you know, technology is kind of level the playing field there in terms of being able to get that diversification and risk mitigation factor. But single family because we feel that is the most resilient asset class, the most boring but safest. And I would naturally say like, as you kind of master the single family rule, then yeah, why not progress to the multi. But I know like a multi does

depending again on size and price point, they’re a lot more, they’re a higher ticket item and typically does require you to kind of go raise capital, become a joint venture and have to do a lot of things that are probably net new as opposed to keeping the control within your own wheelhouse. If this is my capital, I can actually afford to go buy a house and it’s all mine. I don’t have any partners. I don’t have any GP. I don’t need an LP, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s why the single family. And I think like the pandemic is really also

show the hierarchy of needs of individuals, they would always kind of gravitate towards a single family. And then the tenant profile of a single family is a little more long -term. And then talking about the diversification piece, yes, of course, multi -family, it’s like, well, what happens if a person vacates your single family, you’re out? But same thing on the multi, where they’re like, well, one person leaves, I still got my other doors. Well, now,

What we’re saying is, look, you should be diversifying across multiple geographies. So before technology, it was very difficult. That’s a lot of high touch effort. But in the multifamily, we think that if you have one unit, you’ve got that all in one place. So we don’t like the idea of just buying a single multifamily and having all concentrated in the same geography. Because forbid anything happens, you deploy all your capital and next sort of

Detroit, Michigan automotive collapse happens and everything is underwater, whereas we’re like, you should be diversified across regions. But single family has always been very difficult. But now with technology, we’re making that sort of a level playing field. So whether you have units in Georgia, Texas or the Carolinas, we’re providing a singular view and single point of contact where it looks like it could potentially be all managed under one asset manager, which is us.

Andrew Kim (05:20.878)
despite it being across multiple geographies and multiple property management companies. So giving you that sort of multifamily ease, but scattered single -family diversification.

Trevor Oldham (05:32.219)
Yeah, I think that’s, I think the more you said there’s great. And I’m thinking of like the Austin, Texas multifamily market where that’s, I think that’s one of the ones that’s taken a big dip in that say 40%. So if you had say one single family home in Austin, then you had maybe one Georgia, Florida, whatever it is within the U S at least you’re diversifying where instead of just having one particular big property and you know, and just saying specifically that Austin market. So I like that aspect of it. But when it comes to like your company, how do you,

How do you like find these properties? Cause I was taking a look on your site and being in New York, I saw a couple of properties in Niagara Falls. It’s a, it’s a great spot. I will say I do prefer the Canadian side after being on the both US and Canadian side out there, but just curious, how do you guys find these properties? Is it, do you have like a set criteria? Are you just looking at like the 1 % rule? What, just how do you guys find them?

Andrew Kim (06:10.766)

Andrew Kim (06:22.83)
Yeah, so first the Niagara Falls properties were a bit of a unique client driven request. It wouldn’t necessarily have been our first location. But how we look for properties, well, first we kind of do it’s client led. So the properties you see on our site are just more samples or what we call a buy box adjacent. So every time a client comes through, we do a bit of an intake, a KYC, we understand what their buy boxes.

Trevor Oldham (06:28.923)

Trevor Oldham (06:38.971)

Andrew Kim (06:51.022)
And then we will cast our net across, you know, typical landlord friendly states to look for matches of that buy blocks. And what’s happening behind the scenes is that we’re, you know, we’ve got feeds on almost every single MLS. So all the on market deals, plus we tap into large off market channels, wholesalers and institutions and our property management partners that are looking to offload or do any sort of dispositions. And then our system is basically shortlisting those based on like,

cap rates or certain types of yields, and then we’ll shortlist that and present it to the client.

Trevor Oldham (07:26.875)
It’s interesting to be the individual, you know, that they’re choosing Niagara for just being in New York. It’s not too landlord friendly here. I know they’re trying to pass new laws where I forget what it was. It was in the last week, but yeah, they were trying to make it even harder to like kick out your tenant and make it. It was something like the tenant will have the option to renew the lease and you can’t kick them out. It was, it’s crazy what they do in the, in New York. So, you know, I would say away from it, but hey, if that individual, they, they want to go in that spot, you know, more power to them, but.

Andrew Kim (07:35.342)

Andrew Kim (07:49.646)

Trevor Oldham (07:57.051)
We’re curious on the cost of the single families and how, I guess it’s one sort of the cost and then the financing aspect. Let’s say one is it, I know that the properties range in different prices. Like I saw the one in Niagara, you know, it was cheaper. It was 55K I think the one I saw and then other properties were 300K. Is it 20 % down? Is there any creative financing involved? What does that sort of look like from a cost and financing perspective for someone?

Andrew Kim (08:22.158)
Yeah, so yeah, our price range points range, you know, the Niagara Falls, again, we kind of, we don’t suggest that for first time investors. So we typically our sweet spot is anywhere from 150 K to like the mid 300s. And, you know, they’ve got varying returns, you know, on we would call like, we classify them the A, B and C, A’s being the higher price points, C’s being the lower in the 150 K range with the higher returns.

A is being a higher appreciating asset. So in all cases, when clients are looking for financing, we typically defer them to DSCR lenders, which we would help them sort of do the backing into the math of how much capital you need upfront to ensure that we get the best rates. And then once we have sort of a deal, prospective deal, we have a way to kind of push that deal out to thousands of lenders to see which rates come back. And then some clients will bring their own mortgage as well.

where they might go to their primary bank and their primary bank may have a good investment product.

Trevor Oldham (09:28.539)
I think that’s super helpful to know it’s crazy looking at the debt service coverage ratio of some of the properties in the multifamily space. It’s crazy what the loans were a couple of years ago and how it’s gone so different. But with these properties, is there a standard return that someone’s looking to get? And let’s say maybe…

Andrew Kim (09:42.83)
Yeah, it was free money, right?

Trevor Oldham (09:54.811)
Again, I had to keep harping on it, but it was the one I saw. The Niagara Falls, maybe that’s like, you can expect like a 15 % return because the property’s maybe more in rough shape, more needs more work done to it where more of your, say your $300 ,000 single family home, let’s say in Georgia or Ohio, or 300 ,000 in Ohio, that could be a really nice property. Maybe is that like more like a six to 8 % return? Does it depend on like the different markets, what the return someone could expect?

Andrew Kim (10:21.358)
Yeah, 100%. So we use cap rates. I know it’s a very multifamily thing, but yeah, we use cap rates. And for the A’s, so the higher price point homes, like in the 300s, we would be at the low 4%. And then for the C’s that are like in the mid 100s, those would be like in the upwards of like mid sixes.

Trevor Oldham (10:46.779)
Yeah, I think that’s super helpful to know for our audience. But we’re curious when it comes to say, like the properties themselves and you’re going out there and finding them and doing all that legwork, is there any additional work you’re doing? And what I mean by that is like, is there any like turnover of the property? Is there anything like that? Or is it more just you guys are, you know, taking all the time out of the legwork of finding these deals instead of me going out there and spending all my time where I’m super busy? Is there any of that?

you know, where you go in, maybe you rehab it a little bit, you know, touch it up just to make it livable if it is, you know, the different property.

Andrew Kim (11:23.854)
Yeah, 100%. So we’re end to end. We’ll help you acquire and then we take after you take, we’ll help you place the tenant. And then long -term wise, Share is an asset management company. So typically working with very busy professionals that understand the value of direct real estate ownership, but can’t be bothered with any sort of DIY landlord duties.

you know, a lot of them do have institutional investments like REITs and private equity funds. So they know what the upside is, but want to kind of keep it for themselves. So that’s what we provide them. So on that note, when we start searching for the home, what we will do is we kind of understand what their renovation risk is, you know, do they want something turnkey or do they want something with a big rehab? And I will air quote rehab, you know, we only do a certain degree of rehab, we won’t do major structural changes.

But yeah, we will actually when we lock up when we find a home We actually lock up the home under share and then we will assign it to the end clients So during that period during the inspection period we’ll send in a third party inspection our renovation team and our property management Partner to give us a full assessment We’ll calibrate those numbers and then present it to the client and if we think it’s still a good deal We’ll give them thumbs up If they want to proceed then we’ll help them close it out and then usually within one week of close our renovation team is in there

doing the work and then when it’s ready to lease out, well, our marketing team will start leasing it out as well. And then when there’s a tenant in place, we’re the asset management of company of record where we want to 10x your portfolio while you focus on your personal and professional careers.

Trevor Oldham (13:02.523)
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal. And I sort of think of it as like, you know, being a passive investor where there’s the active part of it where, you know, for me, where I’m going in and I’m investing in deals with a sponsor, I still got to like vet the deal. I still got to vet the person I’m going to be investing with. I’m assuming someone would come to your company. They still want to check out, you know, see the property, see like, you know, get some estimations and different things like that. But after that, let’s say they’ve gone through the process, they found the property, maybe they did a slight little rehab.

And then you mentioned you are the asset manager on it. What’s more needed from an individual? Is it really just sort of hands off from there? Is it, hey, if something comes up, we’re going to send it your way. Maybe there’s a repair that comes up here and there that we just need to get your approval on. What does that sort of look like from a perspective of someone after they’ve invested in one of these properties through your company?

Andrew Kim (13:54.222)
Yeah, so we would think about it as like an enhanced sort of relationship with your property management company. We would be that one person in between. So you’d never actually have to speak to a PM property manager. So we’ve got certain decision rights and a reserve pool of capital that we can make certain decisions on their behalf. But we do give the client the option of, hey, when do you want to be notified? If he’s anything worth of like thirty five hundred dollars or anything like that, we give them that option. But we try to not have to bother them as much as possible.

And in most cases, I’d say like 85 plus percent, we don’t ever hear from the client until it’s tax season. And they’re like, can you please provide us with your year end schedules, ease and stuff like that. And we’re like, yeah, just log into your account, go get it. It’s like, ah, I don’t have my password. We’re like, okay, fine here. We’ll just email it to you. But yeah, they’re usually pretty hands off.

Trevor Oldham (14:30.363)

Trevor Oldham (14:46.363)
Yeah, that’s, that’s really nice. Cause I mean, for me, like, I feel like I just don’t have the personality to go out and buy a single family home and just manage the tenant. I like, I’d rather have that property manager. I just feel like I’d be like way too lenient and be like way too nice. You know, like, Oh, you’re falling behind on rent. That’s okay. You know, just get, you know, make up on it. And the next couple of months, just knowing my personality. So that’s why I was like, if I’m going to invest in single family, I’d rather invest with a company like going through your company where you have the built out the team. You have like that extra layer between me.

Andrew Kim (15:04.078)

Trevor Oldham (15:15.835)
and the tenant where I don’t have to deal with that individual because I feel like I’m too nice of a person and I feel bad about kicking them out here or even like raising rents. So to not have me be the fall guy would be, uh, would be nice. But when it comes to like the tenants themselves, they’re like a screening process that you guys put them through. What does that sort of look like?

Andrew Kim (15:24.142)

Andrew Kim (15:33.838)
Yeah, we’ll run them through the standard sort of criminal check, like the previous sort of landlord screening, as well as their sort of debt ratio, making sure that they’ve got enough income to cover X number of months of lost rent.

Trevor Oldham (15:51.291)
and with the tenants themselves and I’m trying to think of the best way to say it but just like a turnover rate is there like a certain I know it’s more of a single -family rental where I know like multi -family apartments the turnover is like every 18 months you know the number is pretty high just because people are moving all the time where I feel like when you have a single -family house people are less likely to move because they’re not like living next to someone they have their own personal space so is there like a certain turnover rate you know and what I mean by that is

Andrew Kim (16:13.71)

Trevor Oldham (16:21.307)
is let’s say someone invests in one of these deals through your company and they’ve had a tenant in place for two years and then the tenant decides, hey, I want to leave. And then now there’s a few months of vacancy and obviously not collecting mortgage payments at that point. Just curiously how you handle that situation or what that looks like just from, just because I’ve heard not just not your company, but terrible turnkey companies in the past where they, where…

They have done a good job in not saying anything like that, but that’s something I have heard where they took like nine or 12 months to find a new tenant. And you know, the person, basically all the cashflow is bled out from them that they were going to make in the last couple of years. So just curious how your company handles that when it comes to that, that sort of that turnover aspect of finding like an ever placing the, I guess you could say your tenant, you know, within a reasonable amount of time.

Andrew Kim (17:10.382)
Yeah. Yeah. So what we do is we typically dot like on a zip code level, we’ll take that into consideration when we’re doing your sort of cap rate estimates in terms of vacancy allowance and like how many years is the average sort of leasing and the average leasing time. So like, you know, in a C -class neighborhood, we might allocate more months of sort of or higher frequency of turnover with a longer lea –

time to lease, whereas an A class property, we may have to chalk that up for every three years, four years. So yeah, it is very zip code specific and tenant profile specific, as opposed to what we’ve seen in the past. It’s just kind of the static 5 % or whatever percent and very naive assumptions.

Trevor Oldham (18:00.987)
Yeah, I think that’s super helpful to know, just depending and varying based on location. And when you’re like managing these properties in these different parts of the country, how does that management team work? Are you just vetting like local property management teams? Do you have your own team built out, boots on the ground? What does that sort of look like? What could someone expect from your property management side of the business?

Andrew Kim (18:22.83)
Yeah, so first off, we don’t do property management in -house. We outsource to large property management companies that typically don’t work with the retail one -off individual investor. They typically only work with large institutions, several thousand dollars minimum. They look at us as an institution because everything is on sort of one account. It’s a lot easier for them and they get to treat us just like any other institution. And then we pass through that cost savings and that quality to our end client.

And it’s really the only way we could actually scale this business is with large institutional property management companies that do have thousands of doors in that particular area. So that’s how we have sort of the buying power we do have with certain local contractors and service providers.

Trevor Oldham (19:09.307)
Yeah, I like that aspect because I know if I was going out on my own, it would be a lot harder for me to get a really good property management team that has all those systems and processes. Or if you’re the guy down the street that is going to take the money and run. Not to say that that would happen, but hopefully that would.

Andrew Kim (19:19.79)

Yeah, I’ve heard of that. I’ve so heard of that. But yeah, I’ve heard of that nightmare. But yeah, it’s better with larger players. They’ve got a strong accounting practice so we can get various detailed financials and estimates and strong feedback and turnaround times. There’s protocols.

Trevor Oldham (19:44.315)
Yeah, exactly. You want to have that sort of structure in place. But when it comes to these markets, I know you mentioned your customer buy box, but is there certain areas in the country that you’re looking at? I always think of your conservative states, your red states, at least for me, that’s where I personally like to invest. You pretty much go from Texas all the way to Florida, go up a little bit north, South Carolina, and go to the Midwest just because they’re more tenant friendly. And obviously that one individual, I don’t know why they want to invest in New York, but nonetheless, they…

they want to. It’s me investing in my home state, not my home state, but investing in the state where I live. But yeah, how does that sort of look from a market standpoint? Do you look where there’s more of the cash -filling aspects of it, where maybe there’s your second and your tertiary markets? How does Atlas sort of look like?

Andrew Kim (20:14.734)


Andrew Kim (20:28.59)
Yeah, that’s exactly it. So, you know, we are Sunbelt Midwest. And then based on their preference, if they’re an appreciation play, then that will probably be more of the sort of prime metros in the Sunbelt. And then if they’re looking for more cash flow players, they’re the more like tertiary markets and some of them more of the Midwest.

Trevor Oldham (20:47.611)
Yeah, that’s that’s perfect. That’s I think it’s definitely good to know as well. I’m curious, someone let’s say they come in, they’re W2 professional and they want to diversify their portfolio. Maybe they have like your background there in tech. They’re earning say 200, 250 ,000 a year and they want to just diversify their portfolio. How does investing in one the single family there help them diversify? And then to what are there certain tax benefits that someone could receive by investing in these single family homes?

Andrew Kim (21:17.838)
Yeah, so the diversification here is, you know, they get the hard assets. So majority of our like majority of our clients do come and are sort of of that profile where they’re coming from the major metros like New York, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, where the average home is well above the national average. And yeah, they’re working professionals and, you know, they’re typically investing in all those types of traditional securities.

and they understand that real estate is sort of the wealth. And surprisingly, a handful of them are actually younger, on the younger side, don’t even have a primary residence. And they’re like, wow, but like, I have like 100 ,000, I want to invest, but I can’t, that doesn’t buy me a shed where I live. So might as well get into the market somewhere else. So that’s kind of them diversifying as sort of getting into the market and real estate.

Trevor Oldham (21:56.059)
Oh wow.

Andrew Kim (22:12.814)
And because there’s potentials of higher earnings returns with us as an asset management company, because they own it directly. And then in terms of how it helps them in their W2 world, is real estate with the depreciation and all of that good economic pro rata rights, we can kind of help you offset some of your personal income.

Trevor Oldham (22:37.243)
Yeah, I think that’s one of the best parts about investing in real estate. I know I got a couple of K1s this year and there might be depreciation or capture at some time, but at least for right now, you see your net income and then you see the depreciation. I really wish I could get that real estate professional tax status so I could wipe off all of that. I know that’s one you can get heavily audited. It’s very heavily audited by the IRS. So should I try to do it? I think I’m going to hold off on that because I know that one’s…

That’s nice because it’s like if you get a $25 ,000 loss, like right now I can only claim it down to zero, but then it’d be nice to really claim all of that. You know, it’s a, it definitely has the benefits investing in real estate, but, but Andrew, I just want to say I really enjoyed this conversation today and for our audience that wants to learn a little bit more about you and your company, where should they go to?

Andrew Kim (23:07.502)

Andrew Kim (23:15.214)

Andrew Kim (23:27.886)
Yeah, you know go to our website sharesfr .com. It’s sharesfr .com as in single family rental. So sharesfr .com. You can create a free account, take a look at some of our sample properties and if you’re interested for us to initiate a custom search, you can book a call with someone on our team. And we’re also on Instagram, all the social handles, sharesfr .com.

Trevor Oldham (23:47.739)

Trevor Oldham (23:52.539)
I’ll make sure to include that in the show into today’s episode and Andrew, thanks so much for coming on to the show today.

Andrew Kim (23:57.646)
It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.





REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

Mastering the Art of Podcast Interviews

In this episode, I’ll discuss how to master the art of podcast interviews.

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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:01.038)
Today I want to talk about how to do podcast interviews. And this is both for whether you’re going to be a podcast host or whether you’re going to be a podcast guest. So just diving right into it, what’s your setup going to be? And what I mean by that is let’s go down. If you’re a podcast host is where you’re going to be recording your interviews. You could use zoom. You could use.

Riverside, you could use StreamYard. There’s any different number of platforms that you can have for your setup. And also along the lines with your setup, if you’re gonna be having guests on your show, how are they gonna book your interview? I find it can be a nightmare sometimes when I’m talking to a host and they say, yeah, I’d love to have you on. What does your availability look like? It’s 10 times easier if you have a scheduling link to just send to me.

or to have a guest book on your show or if you’re a host to have guest book for you and I just use Calendly. I know there’s other scheduling tools out there but I find Calendly works the best. I’m able to integrate where the interview is going to be on it whether that’s again on Zoom, Riverside, StreamYard, wherever that may be so I make sure I have that set up in place and then from there I want to make sure I have a podcast mic.

Good quality podcast mic, run you 50, 100 bucks. I use the Blue Yeti, you can get the Blue Snowmall, you can get the Audio Technica, just go on Amazon, look up podcast mics, you should be able to find a good quality mic on there. You probably want a nice quality webcam. I have a nice quality webcam. On my end, I believe I bought off Amazon for 30 bucks. And then I also have a ring light as well that attaches to my desk in the background. Living in the Northeast, it’s really not that sunny.

for a good part of the year. So I wanna make sure I have that good ring light. So I have that nice setup ready to go. And if you are a podcast guest, you probably wanna have a nice webcam mic, a quality microphone, and the ring light all in, probably about 150 bucks to have a really good quality setup. So make sure you have that ready to go. The next one you wanna have is a nice quality time to prepare.

Trevor Oldham (02:24.973)
for the interview, whether it’s yourself going on the interview, if that’s the case, check out the podcast, listen to a few episodes, get an understanding of how the podcast is gonna go. If you’re a host and you wanna prep for your guests, see what do they do, what’s their background, just different things like that so you know who you’re gonna be talking to. I find that if you’re having a guest and you’re introducing them on the podcast, you’re gonna wanna go through.

and check out how to pronounce either their first name, their last name, sometimes it might be a little different than what you actually expected. So you just want to make sure you go through and do that on your end and just spend your time preparing for your interview. And now that you’re hopping into the interview, you want to be conversational, you want to be authentic. Everyone loves a story. No one wants to have you on their podcast just to hear you.

Talk about why you’re the best. If you’re a real estate investor, why you’re the best company. No one wants to listen to an infomercial. I mean, we see those on TV all the time. No one wants that. No one wants to be pushed hard on it. It’s not a sales pitch. It’s just you coming on and sharing your expertise. When I go on podcasts, I just talk about, hey, here are the benefits of podcasting. Here’s what you get out of it. Here’s how you do it. Cause I mean, at the end of the day, the benefit of podcasting you on my company.

is it really save people time from going out there and trying to find podcasts and book themselves. So, I mean, I could teach anyone how to do it. It’s whether or not you want to spend the time or train someone on your team to do it. So I like to tell stories. I like to be authentic and just like to be conversational with the host. I’ve interviewed folks on my podcast where I asked them a simple question or a question per se, and they get back to me on the 15 second answer.

And it’s just going to be a drag on the interview. And not to say that you want to be talking as a guest for 10, 15 minutes or five minutes, maybe two to three minutes max. But again, just to be conversational and similar with the host. And this was something I struggled early on was that I would interview people and I would prep really hard. I would have all these questions set out and I would only stick to the questions. And I would say to the guest, I would.

Trevor Oldham (04:44.013)
say this question and move on to the next question and then move on to the next question. Just go down my bullet point list. I thought it was a little bit trickier to be conversational. There’s just going to be points in times during the interview where something that something comes up that I just want to dig more into it. And it wasn’t in my questions that I had laid out. So I just want to be conversational and authentic. The best aspect of it is being consistent. And I think this falls in line with also practicing.

as well. If you’re a podcast host and you want to start off on a podcast, it can be a little scary from time to time and a little fearful if you’ve never done an interview before. And I remember when I had started a previous podcast, not this podcast, I had a gentleman on the show called John Gordon. He’s a highly successful author and he has some great books and I highly recommend checking him out. And I remember we just like butchered his name just like so bad.

Not even his name is just his bio that he had to tell us, okay, here’s how you should be reading my bio. And it was just, it was super embarrassing. I remember I interviewed an entrepreneur, Mike Dillard, a successful online entrepreneur. I forgot to hit the record button and it was just not great. Not ideal, not what you want to have, but that was just in the beginning until I had more consistency until I practiced. And what I mean by practice is just doing more interviews, being consistent. Are you going to be.

Every one or two guests a week are going to be going on one or two podcasts. Maybe not a week, but maybe two to four podcasts per month. What is that going to look like? And you just want to be consistent with that. And similar to being a guest within yourself, it could be uncomfortable for the first five or 10 interviews that you do going out there and being a podcast guest. What I did for me, and it was a two sort of pronged strategy. One, when I was first going on shows, I wouldn’t go on the bigger shows.

I wouldn’t even go on the medium -sized shows. I would go on your smaller shows. And by what I mean by the smaller shows is I would search for podcasts that had, and the tools you can use are ListenNotes, Raphonic, number of tools out there where you can search shows. And I would filter by podcasts that had five to 15, maybe 10 to 15 episodes out there. So these are going to be your newer podcasts when I was just getting started. And I wanted to go on these shows just to get my story done.

Trevor Oldham (07:12.045)
figure out what I was going to say, make sure I don’t pause too often, make sure I don’t have it. I don’t say I’m too much, just things where you’re not doing interviews all the time and not being consistent with it are going to creep up. So that’s where you want to keep practicing because the last thing you want to do is go on a podcast, a larger podcast, and you don’t have your story down. You’re uncomfortable and just doesn’t make for a good time. And you wasted that opportunity.

to really shine on one of these larger podcasts and something that helped me out, not so much on the consistency side, but practicing was taking a public speaking course. That was back when I was in college and I had my podcast then. And then a few years later, I wanted to get, continue to get better at it, going through Toastmasters and just trying to get better all around at public speaking. Cause it wasn’t something that I was natural at. It wasn’t something that I was used to. And I found that that helped. So.

Those are how to master the art of podcast interviews, how to do interviews, whether you’re a host, whether you’re a guest, and I hope everyone found that content very helpful today. And until next time, I hope everyone has a great day and a great rest of the week.




REI Marketing Secrets Podcast

The Benefits Of Investing In Flex Industrial Real Estate with Grant Reaves

In today’s episode, Grant Reeves, the managing director and co-founder of Stoic Equity Partners, discusses his background and the focus of his company, which is commercial real estate investment in the Southeast. He explains their value-add strategy and their shift from self-storage to flex industrial properties due to supply constraints in the market. Grant also talks about the challenges of finding deals in the current market and the importance of vetting deals thoroughly. He shares insights on lease terms, tenant diversity, and the communication and reporting process for investors.

Listen To The Podcast Here 

Watch The Episode Here 

Not Yet Available on Youtube

What’s Covered In This Episode

  • In this episode we’ll cover:
    • Stoic Equity Partners focuses on commercial real estate investment in the Southeast, with a value-add strategy.
      They shifted from self-storage to flex industrial properties due to supply constraints in the market.
      Thoroughly vetting deals is crucial in the current market, and Stoic Equity Partners emphasizes transparency and accessibility for investors.
      Lease terms for their properties are typically three to five years with annual rent increases.
      Tenant diversity is important to mitigate risk and avoid overexposure to a single sector.
      Investors receive quarterly reports with updates on property performance and financials.

Connect with Grant: /


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Read The Transcript Here

Trevor Oldham (00:01.866)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the REI Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today on the show we have Grant Reeves. Grant, for our audience out there who’s just learning about yourself and your company for the very first time, do you mind going into a little bit about your background?

Grant Reaves (00:15.21)
Yeah, for sure. Thank you for having me on today, Trevor. So my name is Grant Reeves. I am the managing director and co-founder of Stoic equity partners. We’re a commercial real estate investment firm based in Daphne, Alabama, which is kind of near mobile down the Alabama Gulf coast. Uh, we primarily invest in multi-tenant flex industrial in the Southeast. Uh, we have a value added strategy that we perform on those deals. We have also done a few self-storage deals.

as well as a little bit of development, but primarily we buy value ad flex in the Southeast is kind of what we do. Jeremy Friedman and I started the firm in 2020. We were both commercial real estate brokers prior to that. And we’re long-time friends and kind of through COVID had a little bit more time to get together and start talking about putting together the framework of starting our own firm and through that Stoic Equity Partners was born. He had a deal that he was looking at and didn’t fully.

know how to structure it. And I was looking at starting to do my own syndications at that time as well. So it was kind of just good timing to, um, for us to start talking. And, um, so the first deal that we did was actually the building he had an idea on, but it was a, uh, 45,000 square foot office building that at the time, um, the plan was to go in and get the office tenant to renew their lease and be able to flip out of it for lower cap rate. Um, that was about the time when COVID started. And so, um, that did not come to fruition. And instead they.

Paid us a big check to get out of the lease and we turned it into self-storage. So that’s kind of how we got started. Um, yeah. And so from that deal, we’ve gone on to do, I guess, a total of 13 investments through syndications or funds and, um, at about, I guess, right under $90 million worth of assets and, um, I’ve done about, I guess, 900,000 square feet.

Trevor Oldham (01:47.44)
That’s super interesting.

Trevor Oldham (02:04.79)
Wow, that’s a good chunk of property. But just curious, there’s obviously a ton of different asset classes in real estate. You could have your, like you guys, your flux industrial, you could have your multifamily, you could have your mobile home parks. I mean, there’s any number of asset classes. What jury to this particular asset class over the other asset classes?

Grant Reaves (02:07.755)

Grant Reaves (02:23.178)
Yeah, so we kind of fell into self-storage a little bit, primarily just based on that first building. We didn’t really have, we know we didn’t start out to be like a multifamily fund or self-storage firm or whatever. We kind of just found that first deal and had a really good basis in it. So ended up in self-storage that way and did a few more deals in self-storage. Did a total of four of them for, I guess, about 200,000 square feet over four assets. But we pretty quickly saw that storage was getting a little tight and there was just so much supply that had come in on the market.

Um, especially in the markets that we play in that are kind of the Southeast growing markets. And everyone kind of saw that play as like either you’re in housing or you’re in self storage, but those were kind of what people were building at that time. So, uh, I guess in early 22, we started to see that trend kind of get to the point where like, I mean, I think the self storage is a good asset class and it’ll do well. But for us to be able to scale and scale quickly, we needed to be able to run. And we couldn’t really do that in self storage. It was hard to make numbers work. And then they started up being interest rates and it just for us became next to it possible.

So we really started looking at just what are the other supply constrained markets. Cause that’s really the biggest thing in the real estate, just like any investing in supply and demand and, um, flex industrial, we just knew from our brokerage days, there was just not a lot of office warehouse around available for that smaller say three to 10,000 or really three to 5,000 square foot user of, of an office warehouse suite. Uh, and then the more we dug into, we found more and more of, of kind of the, um,

Evidence that there just wasn’t enough supply to meet the demand. And on top of that, the further we looked into it, you can build the product and be able to make it cashflow at today’s construction prices and today’s rental prices. So it was kind of just, um, the perfect storm of, of both continuously wrench rise, which is what we’re seeing right now, because if you don’t have enough of it already, you can’t build new product and demand continues to increase as these markets expand. You’re just going to have to see rates continue to bump up. And so that’s kind of where we are.

And so that’s how we ended up here. I think that any asset class, I mean, as long as it’s under supplied and it’s hard to build new of it, then it’s in demand and the rates will continue to go up, which is where you want to be.

Trevor Oldham (04:32.39)
Yeah, and I definitely agree with that. I’m an investor in a couple of different deals and, you know, I’m in a multifamily deal and I’m a triple net lease deal and not that it might be exactly the same with Flex Industrial, but I like the triple net lease opportunity. At least for me, stable cash flow, it’s the one I’m in, it’s not a value add deal. It’s just your corporate grade A tenants you’d think like AutoZone, Dollar General, those different types of tenants, but I like the stable cash flow aspect of that play. But curious, when I’m looking at like a multifamily deal per se.

Grant Reaves (04:51.82)

Trevor Oldham (04:58.91)
a lot of the times it is value add and it just makes sense. You look at it below market rents, units haven’t been updated in 10, 15, 20 years, however it may be, it makes a lot of sense on that end. When you’re doing a value add deal in the flux industrial space, what does that sort of look like on that end?

Grant Reaves (05:14.102)
It’s pretty similar to multifamily really. It’s a lot of legacy owners that you’re buying from. So it’s kind of similar to that, that I guess C to B kind of multifamily value ad play. Um, so a lot of stuff that you’re buying is say legacy assets from, from owners that bought it in the early 2000s or nineties and their basis is so low that their rents are, I’m just using examples here, but four or $5, $6 a foot markets anywhere from eight to 12. Uh, but it’s going to require a few hundred thousand dollars of renovations or

have a million dollars of renovations to be able to get to market rent. They don’t want to come out of pocket. Um, you know, they might have asset paid off. They don’t want to come out of pocket to go renovate this property, be able to bump up rent. But for us, we’ll come in, buy it with the construction loan, have that renovation money built into our model and go ahead and do those renovations, turn over the rent roll and be able to get it, get it to market relatively quickly, quickly. Um, that is the nice thing. And what we do is, is because of so supplies constraint.

that you do have pretty good tenant retention. I mean, it is a hard conversation when you go in there and you have a tenant that was at 475 a foot and you’re taking them to 850. That is a tough conversation, but also at the same time, if the market is 850, like it is in that example, it’s kind of like, hey, you can either pay us 850 and not have to move, or you can move down the street for the same space, have to pay to move and still pay 850. And so it’s a pretty easy sell on that side.

Trevor Oldham (06:33.146)
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And it’s just crazy to me how many mom, pop owners you find, you know, whether it’s multifamily, whether it’s flex industrial. I’m just thinking of like, I’m going to sell storage deal and it’s like, they haven’t updated like the prices in like 15, 20 years. It’s just like, I think it’s the people are paying like, you know, for like a 10 by 10 unit, like 30, 40 bucks. And I don’t know what it is in Alabama, but in New York, it’s like, that’s, that’s insanely, that’s insanely.

Grant Reaves (06:40.235)

Grant Reaves (06:48.426)
Yeah, it’s crazy.

Grant Reaves (06:58.506)
That’s crazy. Even in Alabama, which is definitely not New York, a 10 by 10 still for a decent facility is 90, 100, 110 bucks. I mean, that’s still a big delta there.

Trevor Oldham (07:09.386)
Yeah, it’s pretty crazy to see, but curious, how’s the business been since you started back in 2020? And again, I’m just thinking about it from a multifamily lens where a lot of folks got crushed and you could look at it, they had 80% LTV, they had the floating cap rates, more took on quite a bit of bridge debt. And you could just see now looking back, you can see, okay, these were the problems where it occurred, but how has your business fared since the start of pandemic and obviously with interest rates rising?

I don’t think anyone expected it to go as quickly as it did, but curious how your company has handled that and the rising rates.

Grant Reaves (07:45.418)
Yeah, it’s definitely been interesting. So we did our first deal. So we started the LLC in 2020. Jeremy and I were still brokers at the time, so we didn’t start actually doing deals, I guess we closed that first deal July of 21. Um, so we’ve been doing deals for just under three years now as Stoic, but, um, but very fortunately we never took out any, any floating rate debt. Um, we always fixed everything. We saw a lot of, um, a lot of risk on that side. And obviously that’s about the time where.

Trevor Oldham (08:06.932)

Grant Reaves (08:14.434)
They started up in interest rates, the yield curve inverted. And so there wasn’t really a huge offset to float it. So, I mean, you might be getting 6% floating versus a six and a half fixed. And it just wasn’t worth 50 dips of benefit to take that risk to us. So we’ve never floated any, any debt, which has been monumentally a great move looking backwards, obviously. Um, and then it has become just more and more difficult to buy stuff though. I mean, I think that’s the biggest thing is that.

There are so many owners that have long-term low interest rate debt. I mean, it’s not everyone’s talking to my wife about this other day on our personal home kind of a side story, but we have like a 2.75% interest rate. And I’m like, I’ll die in this house or at least keep this house forever. You know, like, and so you look at that and even on the commercial estate side, right, there’s so much inventory that has been taken out of the market. Just because all these owners have such great debt in place fixed that until we started to see that turn, it’s going to be really interesting, but fortunately not being a multi really, really helped.

not get crushed as bad just because I feel like the multi product, the fundamentals are definitely there. They’re still there for housing. America is under supplied in housing. But at the end of the day, that model of floating bridge debt to be able to get to agency or HUD just got on the wrong side of the trade, which is a shame. But I think long term that most operators will come out the other end. Okay. But it will be interesting. But on us specifically, back to that, really the biggest thing is just deal flows.

It’s hard to make work. You have to get very creative on how to structure deals how to be able to put them together And also just talk to a lot of owners So we have really good analysts that talks to a lot of a lot of owners a lot of brokers Just to go through a lot of deals because you still have a lot of people out there That they would love to sell they’re going to sell the six and a half or seven cap And you know, maybe stabilize year three you’ll only cost at eight And if your debt’s eight and a quarter eight and a half fix this just doesn’t

doesn’t work. I mean, you can’t stabilize to negative leverage, right? Like you need to be able to stabilize to 10, 12%. That is really the hardest part of the rising interest rate environment for us.

Trevor Oldham (10:20.002)
And I like that aspect at least, even though if it’s harder to find deals, you’re at least vetting these deals and taking a lot of time to go through them. And I found different operators within the space where it feels like they’re almost having a new deal. It’s almost like once a week. And you’re like, did you actually vet this deal or are you just doing it to get the acquisition fee? And I’m perfectly fine. I’m happy to pay an acquisition fee. And I know all that goes into it. But it also just scares me sometimes where it’s like, okay, you found another new deal you’re raising again this week.

And not to say like they’re not a good operator, it just scares me sometimes when I just wonder like, how good did you actually vet this deal? So it is good to hear that you have a good team of analysts going through and checking out these deals. And with that.

Grant Reaves (10:58.934)
Yeah. And we have started to track that actually. We put that like in our monthly newsletter and stuff. It was like how many deals we reviewed? How many we under wrote? How many offers we made? How many deals we actually put under contract? Um, because we had LPs come to us and ask the same question because a lot of times when you’re reaching out to LPs, the only thing you’re talking to them about is like, Hey, I have this new deal. So to them, even if, even if it’s not every week, let’s say it’s every other month.

Trevor Oldham (11:02.722)
Oh wow.

Grant Reaves (11:22.006)
Which isn’t a ton, but it’s a lot. Then if that’s the only time you talk to them is you have a new deal. Every time you talk to them, that it’s going to seem like to the LP that these guys just are just taking everything that they can, but then when you start to peel back the layer and you start to show like, here’s all the deals that we looked at, here’s all the ones we underwrite, here’s all the deals we’ve made offers on the, here’s the ones we bought, you know, and kind of show that funnel. It definitely helps. We actually had an LP who had an exit from a company. So he had a little bit of time and just liked real estate. So he started like poking around a loop net and stuff like that.

And, and by trying to help us find deals, which is great. You know, it’s just, just helping out, but every deal that he would send us, I’d be like, we’ve seen this, this is why we don’t like it. This is why we didn’t make run at it. This side and the other. And it took them about a month to finally be like, all right, so if I find anything, y’all have already seen it. I’m like, we, we try to think so, you know, it’s like, it’s, you gotta stay on top of that. But now I totally agree with what you’re saying. And it is one of those where you want to be careful not to look like you’re, you’re not really vetting those and really digging deep into them.

because that’s the big part, right? Like everyone can scale really quickly. It’s about being in the business 10 years later, not today, right?

Trevor Oldham (12:24.954)
Yeah, exactly. But I’m curious on your deals themselves that you’re finding and you’re going out there when you’re putting together Let’s say you’re raising capital for the deal 25 50 100 K Whatever that number may be is it more of a single asset allocation where it just say one flex industrial building or is it? You know, you’re finding one in Alabama and then you know your other markets that you mentioned earlier Is it more of a fun model or is it more of the single asset allocation or is it just like a mixture of? You know both of those

Grant Reaves (12:52.726)
So it’s actually both. So we started off just syndicating. So the first 10 deals that we did were just true traditional syndications where it would be a single asset, $50,000 share prices and just raised from there. Last, I guess Q4 of last year, we did start a fund, which is just a Flex Industrial Fund aiming to raise 25 million. We’ve raised seven and a half in that vehicle. And so what we’ve kind of done with that though,

I don’t know if this is unique, but it’s worked really well for us is, is there are certain investors that like funds. And then there are some investors, especially larger investors that prefer single assets and like directly investing in something. So what we’ve done is taking the fund and let the fund invest a portion of the capital and then bring in pair of pursuit, direct investors into the same deal. So it kind of can offer both of those and it keeps the cashflow the same because it all just splits down for a rata, but that allows the, the. Fund investors to get involved in maybe bigger deals that would over

over allocate or maybe if we don’t have the funds raised in the fund yet to be able to take down that deal. And also it gives some of those investors the ability to be able to go directly into a deal because that is an interesting thing there are, and it does seem like sometimes the smaller check writers, like said, the 50 to 200s, which are, which are great. And like, we love the smaller investor, but like a lot of those guys, maybe they only have $50,000 to invest in private real estate period.

Well, fund was probably a better fit for them, right? Like you can diversify risk, you can diversify your opportunity, go out geographically. Um, but a lot of the larger kind of fund defines and, or larger family offices that are writing million dollar plus checks, they really want to see that single asset know exactly what they’re investing in and go directly into that one deal. So it’s kind of good to be able to have both to be able to offer, offer everyone. Right. Cause I mean, this game is as much raising equity as it is real estate. And so you don’t want to.

Don’t want to pigeonhole yourself, I feel like in one or the other into a situation where you’re like, well, we only do funds. We understand that you want to write a $2 million direct deal, but we don’t want to. Yeah, we we’re not in a position to turn that away. Some other operators might be, but we like to make it work for however people like to invest.

Trevor Oldham (14:56.39)
Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. I’ve spoken to a lot of different sponsors and operators and I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone doing it that particular way. Usually it’s just one or the other, either. It’s a single asset, whether it’s just the fund model. So that does make a ton of sense because if someone’s coming to you and they say, hey, I want to get into one deal, I have a $2 million check. It’s not like you want to turn them away if they like what you have to offer. So that makes sense on that. And then when it comes to the typical return someone could expect, is it…

I’m just spitballing, I’m just throwing numbers out there. Is it like a 12 to 15% IRR, maybe 8% preferred? What does that look like or does it vary depending on? Let’s just say you had like, again, just spitballing income fund one, and then you close that deal, then you have income fund two. How does that look like on your end?

Grant Reaves (15:42.294)
Yeah, so the funds target overall is a 15 plus IRR net to the investors, average cash on cash and quarterly distributions of seven to 8%. Now it’s a value add fund. So your first couple of years are going to be more like that four to 5% range. Your last couple of years would be like nine to 10% range. And that’s going to average back into that, say that seven and a half kind of range on the single assets. It can be a little bit more varied. We’ve done stuff, just thinking of the last three that we’ve done that the fund actually has investment symbol. We also have direct investors too.

We have one that’s just over 8% cash on cash return average throughout the life. So it pretty much starts paying dividends immediately and the total IRR on that deal those around 14. Uh, and then at the same time, we have a deal that is a 5% cash on cash, but like a 23 IRR and the first two years were 0% cash on cash just because it’s such a large value add. So it’s, those are kind of the two ends of the spectrum. So like a eight and 13, 14 IRR or like a four to six and 20 plus IRR.

any variation there between.

Trevor Oldham (16:44.534)
I think that’s definitely good to know and then for those are the members of the audience are interested and we guys have to offer Are you guys credited and not accredited? What is that? They’re taking accredited non-accredited investors All accredited

Grant Reaves (16:55.859)
We are all accredited. We don’t take any non-accredited right now. We’d like to figure out a vehicle maybe one day for that. But just for the laws and the red tape, it just makes life a lot easier right now just to take accredited. And then, yeah, so that’s how we do it.

Trevor Oldham (17:13.986)
It’s definitely good to know it. It’s always sad, not sad, but you know, when someone, like I come across deals so I’m not accredited myself, so like when I come across deals I want to invest in, I’d rather know beforehand whether they take the credit or not accredited, because I’ve been on, and that’s like usually, I’m talking to a sponsor, like the first question I’ll ask, because it’s like, I could fall in love with your deal, like what you have to offer, but if you don’t accept, not that you don’t accept me, just the way you structure your deals, that you know, I always like to know ahead of time.

Grant Reaves (17:38.859)

Trevor Oldham (17:41.622)
But to circle back a little bit.

Grant Reaves (17:42.61)
And hopefully those laws will get easier over time on the non-accredited because I do think that private real estate investing is a great investment tool for anybody. And I think that it’s silly to, to alienate that much of the population personally. Um, and so I think that, you know, like I said, like we would like to start taking more credit, non-accredited investors and be able to have a better vehicle for that, um, because that’s definitely a need in the marketplace. And, um, definitely a lot of potential. I feel like in a lot of places that we could, we could help a lot more people.

Trevor Oldham (18:12.85)
then it’s been frustrating to me because I’m in four deals and I had to, a ton of sponsors had to do, a ton of due diligence. I mean, I get the protections there because you don’t want someone just blindly like, hey, here’s 50K on my money without knowing what they’re investing in, but it’s still frustrating. I think the SEC was working on some sort of test you could take to pass it. And there’s some, I could go through, I could get a Series 65, go through that whole process, but I’m like, I don’t know if I want to do that. And there’s a company that does it.

Grant Reaves (18:36.225)

Trevor Oldham (18:40.706)
but you have to pay like 500 bucks a year and then they’ll set you up as like an LLC thrower, however they do it, so it looks like you’re actually running a company so that you can always renew your, I think it’s your Series 65, so that way you can be accredited, but.

Grant Reaves (18:51.382)
Yeah, I think if you’re either a 7 or a 65, I think that’s accredited. But yeah.

Trevor Oldham (18:55.134)
Yeah, I get-

Yes, that one’s interesting, but to me it was just like, I don’t know, the 500 bucks just eats into the returns, especially on the returns where my more aggressive deals, like you mentioned, I’m getting like four to five percent the first couple of years. It might be 200 bucks a deal. So you have to kick off 500 for the year. It eats into it a little bit. But I’m curious when it comes to these deals themselves, I know you mentioned the tenants who come in, you have the value add process where maybe you bump up.

Grant Reaves (19:12.276)

Grant Reaves (19:16.398)
for sure.

Trevor Oldham (19:24.302)
you know, 475 a square foot to 850 or whatever that number may be. When it comes to like the lease term, I’m just thinking more so from the triple net lease side, like we’re coming in, you know, five to six year leases with these corporate grade A tenants, you know, built in rent increases. Is it similar on that side of the shorter term leases, longer term leases? What does it look like? Or is it more just vary by location?

Grant Reaves (19:47.162)
Yeah, it’s usually more three to five year lease terms and they do have annual bumps. So most markets right now we see 3% bumps. The Atlanta Metro, you can get more like four, even 5% annual bumps. But for the most part, we see 3% bumps just kind of market these days after the inflationary process we’ve been in the past couple of years. They are triple net leases, most likely. I mean, we do own some that are modified gross facilities, but for the most part, you want to be triple net leases. And yeah, I mean, we have…

We have corporate grade tenants, but we also have a lot of, a lot of kind of local or regional kind of like HVAC company or like a general contractor or something like that as well. So it’s, um, it’s kind of a game, but then also we have like Terminix or Tyson foods or FedEx or, um, like those kinds of larger, larger tenants as well. So it’s kind of a very wide range of your tenant base, which is great. Cause it also makes you not too, too heavily sectored into one asset or one, one sector. Right. So like.

If construction completely goes away, that would hurt our business, obviously, because we do have a decent amount of construction tenants, but it’s not 100% up. So you still have other ones that you can kind of lay that risk off all by diversifying out your tenant base.

Trevor Oldham (20:58.49)
Yeah, I think there’s a ton of different interesting tenants out there. I know in the DLMN we have like a vet office, which is interesting. It’s, it’s crazy. You think it’s like your local mom and pod vet office, but then they’re owned by like this billion dollar corporation, you know, a private equity firm came in and then bought the, bought like your local vet office. But I mean, they keep it the same, the same vets there, the same name. It’s, it’s pretty crazy. I think near me, I saw about a year or two ago, a year or two ago, this guy. I don’t know how he did it, but he was offloading a portfolio of buildings where the post office was being rented out.

So that was pretty interesting where he owned like 10 or 15 buildings where the only tenant was the post office. To me that just seemed too risky because who knows if the mail is going to… I know they always have funding issues where they might cut back how much they deliver but I thought that was an interesting portfolio where he only owned post office buildings or renting out to those tenants. But let’s say someone is listening to this conversation and they like what you have to say.

Grant Reaves (21:26.701)

Trevor Oldham (21:53.878)
let’s say they are ready to invest and then they’ve invested in the deal, what does that communication, that’s from the communication standpoint look like? Is it monthly reporting? Is it quarterly reporting? Is there, just curious what someone could expect after they were to invest with your company.

Grant Reaves (22:09.01)
Yeah, so it is quarterly reporting. So we show kind of our typical quarterly update will be recent pictures of the property. If we did any renovations recently kind of showing what we’ve been doing, a page that’s kind of going through here’s what the leasing activity looks like. Here’s what the renovations we’ve been doing. Here’s some tenants that are not renewing or are renewing and kind of just an overview of what’s happening. We then show NOI revenue, full rent roll, P&L, balance sheet.

of each investment and then like I said, they’re sent out quarterly. So we always make sure to send them out. Like right now it’s April 9th, I guess we’re, we’re filming this. So we will get out all of our quarterly for Q1 by April 30th. So the reason for that is we use third party property management. So we don’t get the property managers, um, financials for the prior month until like the 20th of the month. So then it gives us like 10 days to be able to go through, put all that into our forms.

upload them into we use Juniper Square as our investor portal and put it up into Juniper and then be able to send it out to everyone. We also distribute quarterly for cash flowing assets. So we do direct with their ACH payments. It’s kind of how we do that. We always make sure to be very transparent and very available. We my personal cell numbers on everything, my personal emails and everything. So as Jeremy, so if anyone is an investor of ours, you know, while they do only get

quarterly, we’re also always available if somebody sees something or has a question or something like that. We always make sure to be very accessible because obviously if someone is invested with you, they need to be able to contact you really easily and get back to you very quickly. So we make sure to not have any layers of protection there or anything like that.

Trevor Oldham (24:00.272)

Grant Reaves (24:14.732)

Trevor Oldham (24:21.742)
Myself when I’m looking at them just to make sure they pencil in and I’ll have questions from there so I just won’t even get an answer back and Definitely, you know that definitely scares me and turns me off as a as a passive investor, but Jeremy I want to

Grant Reaves (24:28.46)

Grant Reaves (24:34.154)
Yeah. And I’m sure that there’s somebody listening to this saying that then I’m sure that someone felt through the woodwork, unfortunately at some point, I probably did not respond to such a shit up, but, uh, that’s definitely something we try to stay on top of when we use CRMs and that kind of thing to make sure that people are getting responded to and that kind of thing. Cause it is interesting, right? Like you started off your firm and you’re reaching out to everyone cause you know them all. It’s all friends and family. And then when that tie starts to turn and people reaching out to you, um, you do want to make sure that, that everyone’s getting that attention and everyone’s

questions are getting answered and getting answered fully and that kind of thing. So that is something that we’re putting a lot of emphasis on right now, just to make sure that there is a point of contact and people know who to contact and make sure that those people are getting responded to.

Trevor Oldham (25:16.978)
Yeah, that’s definitely perfect to hear. But Jeremy, I want to say that I really enjoyed this interview today. And for our audience out there, if they want to learn more about you or learn more about Stoic Equity Partners, where should they go to?

Grant Reaves (25:28.766)
Yeah. So our website is stoic So it’s S T Y C E My email is G Reeves. So G R E A V E S at stoic And, um, I’m also on Twitter as Reeves underscore grant. Uh, but yeah, any of those, I’m also on LinkedIn. I do not know my LinkedIn handle, but you’re welcome to search me there. I love to connect with you on LinkedIn. And, um, yeah, those are the best ways, but email is definitely the easiest way. Um, or through, I think we have a contact us kind of.

page through our website as well.

Trevor Oldham (25:59.854)
Awesome. I’ll make sure to include that in the show notes of today’s episode. And again, thank you so much for coming on.

Grant Reaves (26:04.928)
Yeah, thank you for having me.





Alexa Seleno