#15: The Benefits Of Using A Deferred Sales Trust with Brett Swarts

Full Transcription Of Today’s Episode

Trevor Oldham  00:46

Hey everybody, welcome back to the real estate investing exposure podcast and today on the show we have Brett Swarts. Brett is considered one of the most well rounded capital gains tax deferral experts and foreigners speakers on the west coast. His audiences are challenged to create and develop a tax deferred transformational exit wealth plan using the deferred sales trust so that they can create and preserve more wealth. Brett is also the founder of capital gains tax solutions and host of the capital gains tax solution podcast. Each year he equips hundreds of high net worth business professionals. With the deferred sales trust tool, their high net worth clients solve capital gains tax deferral limitations. Brett, super excited to have you on the show today.

Brett Swarts  01:30

Trevor, my pleasure to be here looking forward to adding some value to you and your audience.

Trevor Oldham  01:34

Most certainly. And Brett when I was taking a look at your bio and taking a look at your experience. As I mentioned a little bit before we hop on to the call. The first thing that stands out to me is the deferred sales trust. And I noticed one of the questions. One of the questions that your team had sent over to me is the difference between that deferred sales trust and a 1031. But before we hop into that question, I love for you just to go take the audience through your background, how you got started into this part of the business. And I really sort of what that journey looks like.

Brett Swarts  02:03

Absolutely. So I grew up in the real estate business and Northern California, kind of a Silicon Valley East Bay Area of California. And, you know, I fell in love with real estate at a young age, my dad was a real estate developer. And we learned the sticks and bricks of real estate and learned how to work hard on how to run a business watching him driving the bobcat. This isn’t the 1980s they called the MC Hammer days. So my brother and I are learning about that and things are going really well. The family was thriving. And then the family was not thriving. Parents got divorced at a young age place spent time with my dad and my mom. Some went from having, let’s say a lot of wealth to with my mom like no wealth, Okay, and let’s just say my dad didn’t pay as much child support as perhaps he should have been. And so I lived most of the time with my mom, and at a young age, I wanted to make sure that when I grew up my family, I wanted to have a lot of margin. And I wanted to have rock solid, solid relationships. And I didn’t want finances to ever get in the way. And so with that I still love real estate, right. And so I went to college, and I played college basketball, but now it’s on scholarship, which was really fun. But I had a chance to study a business as well as take an internship at a company called Marcus and Millichap, which is a real estate investment brokerage firm specializing for me in multifamily properties. So I started to learn from some of the best in the business, about how to underwrite properties, you know what a cap rate is, what’s an ally with an IRR, you know, how to add value, how to improve properties, how to build wealth in real estate, and then also how to sell these assets to investors. And so this was during the 2006 to 2008 range, right? When everything was getting started and everything crashed, I went from making a little bit of money and starting to succeed and kind of building my dreams to like nothing overnight. And I found myself a newly married baby on the way to a 100% commission job making it literally like zero, like it was really scary. And so I remember coming into a manager’s office at the time. And I’m just really distraught, really scared because I got no longer it’s not it’s not longer me anymore, right? It’s me, my wife and my daughter at home. And I was used to being successful and really everything that I had done prior to that. But now I find myself kind of feeling like a failure, a failure for my wife and a failure for my daughter. And all of the fears of what happened with my parents started just kind of storming back, right? So I wanted to be able to provide and my wife’s dream was to be full time home with our daughter. She studied child development and she loved you know, helping kids and she ran up before and after school perfect kids, but she found herself after being newly married and the baby and the baby came in that she didn’t really want to go back to work. So I said okay, let’s do whatever it takes, right so I did what I think is what every good entrepreneur or real estate wannabe does, they get a side job or a side hustle at nights and weekends and so by dad make cold calls and market them All chap trying to drum up business. And by night I’ve been making these, I’d be serving cheesecake, okay to keep the lights and lights on. So I did that for a two year period of time. And during this struggle though, Bert part of this journey, my clients were also going through a struggle. And this struggle was the financial crash, you see, they had made a lot of wealth for 10 or 20 years, sometimes 30. But a lot of them had done what’s called the 1031 exchange, which we’ll talk about here in a minute. And part of that they had overpaid for properties they had taken on too much debt, they didn’t have enough liquidity or diversification. And so they found themselves in a really tough spot. Some of them lost everything, some lost half, and they spent the next 23456 years, you know, crawling out of that. So my dad helped them negotiate with banks, and helped them reposition their properties. And then by night, I serve the chief hate to keep the lights on. Now during this period as well, a gentleman came in who’s now my business partner, actually played for the 40 niners. I know you’re a Patriots fan, and I’m a 40 Niner fan. And so he played for the four nights with Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, see growing up, this is like, these are guys like my heroes, right. And I played football in high school as well. And so I love football. And so he came in, he spoke about the deferred sales trust. So he’s a financial advisor, though, and he specializes in this deferred sales trust. And I started to implement this strategy with my clients. And as I did, my business started to grow as I did, I started to see how this could solve the problems of all of the heartache that they had just gone through. So over a period of time, all of a sudden, my business started to grow fast for my wife, we have five kids, we live here in Sacramento, California. And she’s never had to go back to work. And we know this will be successful. But I always start that part of it. Because it wasn’t easy, right? I had to persevere, we had to pivot, my wife totally supported me. And we went through struggles and living with my brother and a small condo, working side and job side jobs. And now on the other side of this, I can help people through these challenging times. Right? With what to do with their wealth, how to sell it, how to diversify, and how to never use a 1031 exchange again, if they don’t want to.

Trevor Oldham  06:57

That’s excellent. That’s an excellent overview and out of curiosity, and typically, this is the question I asked at the end of the show. But you brought it up a little bit earlier. And it’s something that’s been on my mind and where you mentioned that the previous clients of yours back in, let’s say, Oh 608 they overpaid for properties. Do you think that’s something that can happen now, people are overpaying for properties based on what you’re seeing out in the marketplace? Or do you think that people are still being due diligence, because at least from when I’m looking at houses in my local area, I could just tell people are overpaying for the houses doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. But I just wanted to get your take on what you’re seeing, at least with your clients.

Brett Swarts  07:35

Yeah, I absolutely think that most are okay. Most are overpaying. And it’s the fear of missing out. It’s also like wanting to have a house for your family, not having to be dependent upon having to rent, and the rent always going up. I mean, we’re in a housing crisis. So there’s two, there’s two markets, right? There’s the single family home market, right, where someone’s living there with their families. Right. And then there’s the rental, you know, multifamily investment world. So there’s two different worlds, but definitely track along a lot of the same lines. Both of them are overpaying right now, from my book, especially here in California, probably the same thing in Massachusetts, you know, especially big cities. Now, in every single marketplace, you can find deals. I’m not gonna say you can’t find deals, it’s just harder and harder. Why? Because it’s just low inventory. Interest rates are so low, right? And that’s driving up values because supply and demand are not in sync, right? There’s definitely more demand than there is supply. So you add all of that that’s called the perfect storm, the perfect storm is causing these prices to be high. So yes, you want to be cautious about what you’re buying, when you’re buying it, how you’re buying it. You know what price you’re paying. But I definitely think most would agree we’re in a seller’s market. And values are sometimes at an all time high, how long it might last? That’s the heart. That’s the crystal ball. We don’t know. It could be six months, 12 months. 24 can be three years. We’re not sure. Right. But certainly it is. It is definitely a high market for sure.

Trevor Oldham  09:01

Most certainly. And now I want to hop back over into the deferred sales trust and for an audience that is new to this. They’ve heard of the 1031 exchange, they haven’t heard of the deferred sales trust, would you be able to walk them through what the differences are and how it looks compared to a 1031?

Brett Swarts  09:17

Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing to understand about the deferred sales trust is that it can defer capital gains taxes on the sale of any asset of any kind, including cryptocurrency including primary homes, including investment real estate, including businesses aren’t working collectibles, fancy cars, okay, anything of any kind, you can defer taxes versus a 1031 exchange can only defer taxes on the sale of investment property. And if the Biden ministration passes what they are considering the 1031 exchange is further going to be limited to only deferring up to $500,000 of gain on a million dollar basically if you make a million or more so there’s a lot of things to consider there. We’ll see if that actually can pass. But I want to give you an analogy to make this even simpler for everybody because I just said a whole lot there. And it may be a little bit. I don’t want to get into the technobabble when you think about blockbuster versus Netflix, right, and Trevor, and if you remember, you know, I’m 30 I’m 38. I’m thinking you’re about 30. Right? Maybe 29 Yeah. And so so, you know, there’s a blockbuster, and you’ve probably still remembered it. Remember showing up on a Friday night and you want to get that video and you’re all excited. And you’re walking down the aisle to see that video. It’s behind that cardboard box, right? And you’re like, yes, there it is. There’s my video. And so you’re all marching. But right before you get there, somebody steps right in front of you. They’re like, you know, there’s one aisle in front of you. So they get it, they smile at you. And they look at you and they take the video, you’re like, Oh, your hearts are crushed. But you also like, kind of applaud the guy you understand he got there before. Yeah, cuz you’ve been there before. But even if you got the second video that you liked, you have three days to return it. Right? If you didn’t rewind it, you got a penalty, right? You got to also drive and you know, it could be snowing, it’d be December, it can be really cold in Massachusetts, and you’re just like, gosh, man, I gotta drive over there. I gotta park on the ice. I gotta go, you know, the last 1031 exchange, right? realize it’s very, very restrictive. And it’s also very limited in that you have 45 days to identify a property, you have 180 days to close. So you can sell an investment property and essentially trade it or buy another property in a short period of time. We call this the shotgun wedding. Our parents taught us to sell high triggers and buy low, didn’t teach us to sell high and buy higher. 180 days later, with more debt overpaying rushing around making poor decisions. If you had any friends that got married really fast, Trevor, I know you just got engaged brother, man, congratulations on that. But guess what, those friends got engaged quickly and didn’t take their time. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. Sometimes it’s fine, right. And sometimes you find that perfect property. And by all means, I’ve done 1031 exchanges. I mean, we’ve, you know, collectively, commercial real estate and with Delaware statutory trust and deferred sales trust about over $200 million of assets that have traded. So I love a 1031 when it’s a buyers market, when you can find that forced appreciation value adds property, high fives, but guess what not every tool is for every market. It’s like the deferred sales trust is not for everybody, right? So you got to first understand this essence of buy low sell high and the 1031 exchange oftentimes is the opposite, sell high and buy higher 180 days. So that’s number one. What is the Netflix version? Okay, well, Netflix is the deferred sales trust. Guess what, there’s no timing restrictions. You can sell high and buy low. And I’ll give you an example of this in 2006. We call this the Monday morning quarterback, this gentleman in Minnesota. He hates the stock market loves investment, real estate, this guy’s worth a couple 100 million bucks really smart sells a $20 million asset. He’s looking around with these 1031 binoculars and can’t find a deal anywhere. He’s like, This is crazy. Prices are too high. Now unlike what’s happening right now. So what did he do? Well, he moved the funds into the deferred sales trust, he deferred all this capital gains tax, he had all of his debt. And he sat in conservative stocks, bonds and mutual funds, which is part of the Netflix version. We don’t have to do like kind property, we can do liquid investment grade securities, such as stocks, bonds, mutual funds, the biggest companies in the world. So he puts it in these very, very conservative stuff. Okay. And because he thinks the stock market was also high about the time I left, so five years later, okay, five years, these are patients here, okay? The market crash, you know, a crash within a couple years. But he waited five years, the bank called him back and said, Hey, you know, that property sold for 20 million? He says, Yeah, sure. Well, we just foreclosed on it from the guy who bought it, who bought it from you? And we’re just curious, do you want to buy it back by any chance? He said, Well, maybe what’s the price? Like about 40% less than what you sold it for? He says that sounds like a pretty good deal. So what did he do? He reallocated the investments out of the stocks, bonds and mutual funds into an LLC. And in partnership with the LLC, he bought that property back. All tax deferred, Trevor. Okay, at 60 cents on the dollar. So what to do, he sold high and oh six, and he bought low five years later. Okay. And that’s the Netflix way of doing things, right. We don’t have 45 day identification, we don’t have 180. We don’t have, you know, we don’t have to put it in a lifetime property. We don’t have to take on a bunch of debt. We can sit with our powder dry on the sidelines, and buy when it makes sense. And so that’s the first biggest thing. And I’ll pause there to see the questions.

Trevor Oldham  14:21

I think the question that comes to my mind is, as you’re deferring this, as you mentioned, this particular client put the money, you know, from the investment property put into stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, or at what point would someone have to pay taxes on it? If they can, I just keep deferring it until let’s say, hypothetically, the day that they die, and then it becomes part of whatever other taxes that may be included there.

Brett Swarts  14:42

Great question. So the deferred sales trust is very, very flexible, and the time can go for as long as he likes, although we do set it up in 10 year increments and every 10 years, you can renew for 10 years, renew, renew, renew, and then you can pass it to your kids. Let’s just talk about what exactly a deferred sales trust is because people are probably asking that right now too. Okay. So first of all, I think we’ve established a tax deferral mechanism, right capital gains tax deferral maximum, which it is, but what it is, is actually an installment sale. And for those that don’t know what that is, it’s like carrying back papers like a seller carries back. Okay. It’s based upon IRC 453, which goes back to night and 93 year old tax law. Okay. And essentially, what that means is, Trevor, let’s say you’re selling a $10 million deal. At a primary home in a really fancy place. What’s the fanciest place and in Massachusetts,

Trevor Oldham  15:30

Like, finally, Sharon Wellesley, one of those areas right? Okay,

Brett Swarts  15:34

Yep. And this, this cup, these families that are for 30 years, right, and they bought this property for 2 million, now it’s worth 10. So they’re in a primary home, now, their kids are all gone, right, they have no debt on the property. But if they sell right now, they’re gonna pay somewhere around, let’s just say 30%. On that, on that, on that $8 million gain, right, they bought it for 2 million, they’re gonna pay about 30%, on 8 million, now they go to 121 exclusion. But let’s just imagine that’s also a part of that. So they can pay on 8 million, what’s 30%, that’s about $3 million, maybe two and a half. So instead of paying that, they can defer that move on to the trust, okay. But the other way to do that, they could actually do an installment sale with a buyer, they could find a buyer for 10 million, and they could become the bank, they could say, you know what I don’t I’ll finance you. And if they finance the buyer, they don’t owe tax on what they haven’t received yet. And that’s known as an installment sale. So you as an owner, or me, as an owner, you as an owner, Trevor of that house, we can actually carry back the financing for the buyer, right, so we become the bank. And that’s what IRC 43. So the difference here is the deferred sales trust is we’re just entering in between a buyer for 10 million, and a seller is ready to sell. And instead of having the seller finance the buyer directly, they’re just gonna finance this trust. And when they do it in that order, they sell the property to the trust, and the trust actually sells it to the buyer. The trust receives the money, but the seller is waiting, and they’re waiting for it to be paid back to them. What’s the interest rate, typically about 8% compounding over a 10 year period of time, and they slowly receive payments, kind of like a 401k or an IRA. If you have one right now, Trevor, right. You put money into this IRA or this 401k. And it’s sitting there on a tax deferred basis, until you start receiving payments at a certain age. And then as you receive, you’ll pay the tax, it’s the same thing here. You park it into this deferred sales trust, and you just wait to receive payments, you can receive payments right away, by the way, or you can wait depending on what your income needs are. But you see how that family now, who before did not want to move out of that house, that real estate agent could not get that listing, or they wouldn’t sell it because they had this $3 million of tax, all of a sudden they come in and they solve the problem. As real estate professionals. If you’re listening to this, and I’m a real estate professional, we’re actually not in the business of selling real estate. We’re in the business of solving problems, right? So when you walk in and say I can solve that two and a half $3 million problem. What do you mean? Well, it’s a deferred sales trust. Wow. And it gives me income. Yeah. And I can retire. Yeah. And I can downsize. Yeah, and I can move closer to the grandkids. You see how this tool can unlock the transformation? Trevor?

Trevor Oldham  18:17

I can’t. That’s, that’s perfect. And, and now I wanted to say let’s say someone’s that our audience is listening. And they’re, they know of 1031 exchanges. And let’s say they’re potentially in a 1031 exchange at the moment, they’re listening to this interview. And they’re saying, Wait a second, I could do this deferred sales trust, and I could put my investment property, I could put it into bitcoin, or worker, or move it over to stocks and bonds and or, you know, they have a longer period of time to buy that property. How do they get out of that? Is there waiting for them to get out of that 1031 to move over to a deferred sales trust?

Brett Swarts  18:52

Yeah, absolutely. So we can save a failed 1031 exchange. So whether you’re past your 45 day identification, you don’t have to identify the deferred sales trust. But we have to do it before day 180 Okay, or if it’s before your 45 identification, we could do it on day 46 if you haven’t identified anything, but let me give you a story for this one. So as a gentleman out of California, he’s owned commercial real estate for 30 years multifamily. He sold a 128 unit apartment complex in Georgia. And he was looking for an exchange property but couldn’t find it. prices were too high. You know, and he’s just sitting there waiting. He didn’t want to overpay. So we save his failed 1031 exchange. He also had sold it for 7.6 million, he had about four and a half million in debt. So he paid off all of his debt. And then he moved the remaining into the trust, which is about three or so. And he deferred about 1.1 million of tax. Okay, so that’s the power of the deferred sales trust. Now once the funds that were going to be invested can be invested in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, it can be invested in passive or active real estate, it can be invested in hard money lending. We have a client who sold a $2.6 million business in Alabama and he’s building 70 units in Tennessee multifamily units from the ground up. So I can go into partnership with you on a new business venture, I called the Go Fund yourself versus having to get funding from friends or family or the bank. Right, you can fund yourself through the trust. So there’s a lot of flexibility there right. Now, again, it also works for cryptocurrency. We’re doing a case right now. And in fact, we have a mastermind here in an hour and a half, where we’re going to be talking about what we have every Friday at about 9:30am PST, it’s called a crypto capital gains tax mastermind. And this is exactly what we’re talking about. We’re talking about selling cryptocurrency and then deferring the tax and moving into cash flow producing real estate. Okay, so the case I’m talking about, we’re actually looking at in closing, probably this week, is a couple who bought aetherium cotton for about $100,000. And in 2017, Trevor had jammed up to about $6 million of value. Okay, now these couple of they’re working 50 to 70 hour weeks, they have two kids, they’re busy. They’re there, they’re relying upon living in the Bay Area and it was very expensive. Okay. And so what do they do? They tougher, they’re gonna plan on deferring the capital gains tax. Can they also back up all this? It jumped up to nine and a half million dollars here about 50 days ago, then it jumped up to 12 and a half, okay, about 40 days ago, and then it dropped back down again. Okay. But the point of all this is now they can sell, defer about, you know, say $11 million of tax. And then they can put it into this deferred sales trust. And on a deferred sales trust is going to produce cash flow. And they literally never have to work again, if they don’t want to. For them, they still love what they do. But they probably will work a little bit less on one of them. I started his own business venture he’s always wanted, he’s gonna get out of the corporate corporate world. Okay, and spend more time with the kids. So that’s the transformation. So works for cryptocurrency for businesses, which are primary homes or for investment, real estate, and he can save a failed 1031 exchange.

Trevor Oldham  21:48

That’s an excellent overview. And now I want to hop into and let’s say someone is not so they have a 250,000. You know, so let’s say it’s a smaller multifamily, it’s 250,000 500,000, is there a minimum amount that you would look for someone who’s opening up a deferred sales trust?

Brett Swarts  22:05

Yes. So we need to waste $1 million gain, and at least a $1 million net proceeds? Yeah, so the answer is 1 million, 1 million. Okay. So you sell it for 2 million bucks and get a million dollar debt. Okay, and then you fit, and he least bought it for a million and you have at least a million dollar gain, then you fit, right, so 1,000,001. And why is that? Well, because we need the fees, or fees, cost fees. And fees are about one and a half percent a one time fee to set it up. And about one and a half percent on the actual net proceeds on an ongoing basis. But we need to be able to paint big enough, the tax liabilities are big enough to justify our fees. Let’s just say you’re selling a $10 million deal and you got $1 in tax, we’ll just pay the dollar and tax on us, Trevor. But if you’re selling a $10 million deal, and you’ve got three or $4 million of tax, well call us up, Trevor, we can keep that all deferred for you. Right. And we can keep that working for you. By the way, you might be wondering, well, is that thing? Am I being charged interest on what I owed to the government? The answer is no. It’s actually a zero interest loan, you still owe it to them. But they say as long as you put it into a deferred sales trust, kind of like, as long as you put your money into an IRA or 401k. They’re not charging you interest on that. Right now, though, as you take the income from those things, you’ll pay tax on that, right. That’s ordinary, and that’s fine. But essentially, it’s a zero interest loan from the government. And you can go for as long as you want. Again, pass it to your kids. And why are they? Why does the government do that? People think they get scared like, Oh, am I doing something that’s illegal? Now, the government gives tax incentives to incentivize us to do the behaviors they want us to do. And what do they want us to do? Well, they want that couple in. in that city, you talked about selling that $10 million house, right? Rather than just sitting there at 2 million, because they want to unlock all of that extra 8 million to go into where the economy stocks, bonds, mutual funds, other business ventures to spur economic growth, which does what? It creates more jobs, which does what it creates more tax revenue. Okay, so the government wins here. It’s a good thing right? Now, can you take that money and just go buy a boat and your own fancy primary home? No, that’s taxable, right. And so there are some stipulations to this. So we need to be able to make sure it’s a business purpose, but most people are fine with that. And by the way, if you want it, two or 3 million of the cash out, you cash out and put their difference into trust, and go buy your fancy boat or your house or whatever, it’s your money, whatever you wanna do, that. We’re just here to help you tax plan and not to step on a landmine and to execute on the strategy, if that makes sense, Trevor.

Trevor Oldham  24:29

That definitely makes sense. And let’s say someone is in let’s say, the commercial real estate spot and they’re a syndicator and they’re raising capital for deals can they recommend using a deferred sales trust to potential investors can this is able to help them grow their business

Brett Swarts  24:46

100% and we think it’s the number one way for commercial real estate syndicators to unlock capital, especially from the people that they’re already doing business with, or even new commercial real estate syndicators are looking to start out right. If you think about it. There’s a lot of wealth. And I’ll give you a stat here, Trevor, according to the American Bankers Association, there’s about 17 to $20 trillion that’s going to pass from the baby boomers, right? Those are our parents driving right from their generation to our generation in the next 20 years. And this is the largest wealth transfer in the history of the planet that we know of. And that same study found about 10,000, baby boomers turning 65 every day. And there’s about 77 million in the US alone. They also found that same study that 50% of their wealth is tied into high end primary homes, businesses and commercial real estate. And on top of that, they’re facing 30 to 50%. capital gains tax. Okay, on top of that, if Biden passes a proposal that will go from from 30-50 to 50 to 70%. Okay, let’s hope he doesn’t pass that. But let’s imagine he does. And now they want to sell, they want to be out of the toilet trash liability, they don’t move closer to grandkids, they want to maybe start another business, they want to do something else, okay. But they don’t want to just hold on to these assets. So when they sell, they can defer the tax and as an operator for commercial real estate, those funds up to 80% can be put into deals active or passive with you, right? So it’s a great way for you to say Hey, Mom, Dad, sell that $10 million deal. Okay, move into the deferred sales trust, and then eight of the 10 Let’s go buy an apartment complex to get some cash flow. The other two millions got to stay with the financial advisor, who’s my business partner, and he does stocks, bonds and mutual funds, right? conservative allocations. He’s been doing for 25 years on Forbes counsel list. He’s really, really a great guy who can play for the cool 40 niners. And so we’re all gonna work as a team to map all this out. And you know, get the diversification, get the risk tolerance, all of that. But the answer is yes, we think it’s the number one way to unlock capital that otherwise people would have to sell that $10 million house, let’s just say, pay the 3 million of tax, and then show up with 7 million, right? We’re gonna say no, sell it at 10 for all the tax show up with 10 million. That makes sense. That definitely makes sense.

Trevor Oldham  27:00

That’s an excellent answer. But Brett, I want to be respectful of your time. And I just have a couple of quick questions to ask you before we end the show today. And one of them is do you have to have a favorite real estate investing book or business book they recommend for our audience to check out?

Brett Swarts  27:17

Yeah, I mean, you guys probably hear the Rich Dad Poor Dad every single time, right. So definitely check that out. Um, and a business book, I would say story brand, right. It’s one of my favorite business books. It’s this really incredible way of thinking and branding and marketing and selling. The other one, I think I’ll add one more. It’s called expert secrets by Russell Brunson. And the other one is by Donald Miller. Right. And then Rich Dad, Poor Dad is by Robert Kiyosaki. So just read all three of those books.

Trevor Oldham  27:49

Those are excellent recommendations. And then the last question I have for you is what kind of audience find you?

Brett Swarts  27:55

Yes, they can go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com. You can also search capital gains tax solutions on YouTube, or on iTunes. And then if you are a business professional, you can go to expert tax secrets calmly. And each of those websites will give you my free ebook, selling your business, real estate or cryptocurrency smarter. And so check that out, get that free ebook, if lots of free content on our YouTube channel. And yeah, that anyone who needs help, we’d love to help you out in any business professional who wants to grow their business, the deferred sales trust, reach out to us and we’d love to help. 

Trevor Oldham  28:32

Yeah, awesome. I’ll make sure to include that in today’s show notes. And I just want to say thank you again for your time. I know our audience would find a lot of value out of this interview today.

Brett Swarts  28:40

Hey, you’re welcome. Thanks for having me Trevor.